[fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum

[Tony Christie]

Some nice analysis here and possibly even "true" or likely to come true. Nevertheless, it may only be helpful to the cause of promoting and ultimately achieving a fairer system in that it illustrates one of the normal ways popular movements can lose their way. Oppositition, setbacks, discouragement, feeding internal disagreement, potentially leading to disarray. 
I haven't participated in this forum yet but follow along sometimes, less often than I should, no doubt. But I am moved to do so now because I am inspired, from time to time by those who, despite opposition, discouragement, setbacks, manage somehow to avoid discouragement. This is not to endorse naiivite or any hook, line, and sinker responses to normal political bait like sunny ways, etc., but to urge a healthy skepticism, even cynicism just slightly over-balanced by a just slightly healthier optimism and hope.
The Minister and her gov't have been forced to give Canadians another peek at their cards. Their still the same cards as they were two days ago. But now we have a better idea. This gives activists and advocates a better position, not a worse one, in deciding which cards they (we?) might want to play. We can play the disarray and infighting card, I suppose, but...
I too don't have time to write to the MP, and I too am tempted to think that it would be a pointless waste, but I thonk I'll do it anyway. It's a pretty cheap card and I've played damn few, so far, it must be admitted.
Finally, while I don't usually feel comfortable issuing injunctions or commands to email lists from my lurking shadows, I will in this case give it a try.
So.
Don't give up! Don't let's very often allow our inevitable disappointments as fuel to discourage one another! Sure, "it's" (probably) "not going to happen"! But it It may yet still happen! 
Resume dreaming!
Best to all,
Tony
________________________________________
From: fvc-wat-disc [fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] on behalf of John Cooper [johnco at golden.net]
Sent: December 1, 2016 10:33 PM
To: 'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'
Cc: fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum

This shows once again that the NDP is willing to compromise on some matters in order to obtain the end goal.
If they had not, the media, The Green party, FVC etc  and all of the NDP enemies would have criticized them forever.

The Liberals will not compromise. And based on everything that has been written in the numerous reports I have read tonight and for many months –
   Trudeau, the Liberal party and the Liberal government will not support PR.
The Liberals are known for being able to ‘suck and blow' at the same time and for not keeping promises – just as the Minister said about making election promises and not keeping them.
Even the cynical public will say that they know all parties don’t intend to keep promises.

As for a referendum: the winner will be the group with the most money to advertise their position.
And you can bet that the Liberals will not support an electronic vote so that all possible voters will have an equal opportunity – and the younger voters, a motivation to vote.
Despite being a ‘darling’ to the under 40’s, and supposedly keen on using new technology, he knows that this demographic elected him and expect him to honour his promise.

Without PR, he does not need their vote next election to win because they will not vote. They will be disenchanted.

Writing a letter to Waterloo MP Bardish Chagger will not make any difference. She obtained her cabinet position by supporting Trudeau.
She will not go against him, the party and the government because otherwise she will lose her role.

Stop dreaming!  It’s not going to happen!

John

From: fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] On Behalf Of Sharon Sommerville
Sent: December-01-16 9:27 PM
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
Cc: fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum

Hi Sean,

The "politics" comment is in part because clearly there was horse trading. The NDP who have never supported a referendum moved their position to accept a referendum to get a consensus.  Bringing forward a consensus report was critical to keeping the initiative alive.  It could well be that horse trading was necessary because the Liberals were not supporting PR.

And, that doesn't mean we are going to get a referendum.  On a good day, I think the post card campaign is an opportunity to illustrate that there isn't a need for a referendum. At this point the cabinet can do what it wishes.  The weather vane can point in whichever direction the cabinet wants it to point.

Minister Monsef has a knack for getting herself into political hot water.  I agree that her comments in the House today were very insulting and ill advised.  Good chance that Minister Monsef will be shuffled out of that portfolio at the first available opportunity.

Cheers,
Sharon

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 7:36 PM, haberlin at gmail.com<mailto:haberlin at gmail.com> <haberlin at gmail.com<mailto:haberlin at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Sharon,
 Given the dismissive conduct of the Minister Monsef plus the Liberals members of the ERRE focusing on the Gallagher formula, I would say the referendum compromise is not politics.  Rather, it is the Liberal party saying NO to proportional representation.
 All that the Liberal members had to do is support PR and the referendum option would have been another example of Conservation voter suppression.
 From: fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org<mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org>] On Behalf Of Sharon Sommerville
Sent: December 1, 2016 6:33 PM
To: fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org<mailto:fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>; fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org<mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum
 Hello FairVoting Friends,
 Today the ERRE committee tabled its report to Parliament.
The committee recommended proportional representation!  And, as this is politics, the committee also recommended a referendum.
 Enormous thanks to the ERRE committee for their hard work & commitment on behalf of all of us as they tabled a majority report. Given the numerous perspectives around the table, that wasn't an easy task.
 Now, the report will go to Cabinet.  The Cabinet will make the final decision on what electoral reform will look like and we can expect legislation to be introduced in Parliament in the spring.  Until then, let's keep the pressure up on our MPs and our government.  If we want a fair electoral system, we need to speak up and speak out.  Write letters to the editor of the Record, the Post, the Chronicle, call, email or meet with your MP, talk to friends, neighbours and family, use social media to get out the message.  We would be happy to give a presentation on electoral systems to any group.  Just ask.
 We have an amazing opportunity to finally get a fair electoral system!  Let's work together and make it happen!
 With thanks,
Sharon
for FVC-WR
 PS.,
Here is the link to the report.
 http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=e&Mode=1&Parl=42&Ses=1&DocId=8655791
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