[fvc-wat-disc] fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 92, Issue 39

[Eleanor Grant]

Re Monsef no electoral reform

Reply to Donald Fraser:

Lib power is fading *now*. And wait'll Cons hold leadership convention!

Libs should grasp that PR before 2019 is in their best partisan interest:
no more future govs that they aren't part of!

Eleanor

On 28 Nov 2016 00:21, <fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Monsef on CBC The House (John Cooper)
>    2. Re: Monsef no electoral reform. (Donald Fraser)
>    3. Re: Monsef no electoral reform. (Anita Nickerson)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: John Cooper <johnco at golden.net>
> To: "'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'" <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> >
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2016 23:36:07 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Monsef on CBC The House
>
> The comment I make to Luisa D’Amato (sic): why would anyone trust the
> Liberal party or any of its elected members?
>
>
>
> In the 1891 federal election they proposed "unrestricted reciprocity" with
> USA.
>
> Macdonald won that election.
>
> The Liberals won in 1896 after Laurier's support of Conservative
> MacDonald’s National Policy.
>
>
>
> In January 1911, Laurier and President William Howard Taft of the United
> States announced that they signed a reciprocity agreement, which they
> decided to pass by concurrent legislation rather than a formal treaty…
>
> In September 1911, the Liberals lost the election after proposing a treaty
> with the US to lower tariffs.
>
>
>
> When the Mulroney Conservatives proposed Free Trade with the US in 1988,
> the Liberals campaigned to cancel it.    {this is a summary, not a complete
> explanation}
>
> After they were elected in 1993, they did not.
>
>
>
> ‘He who ignores history is doomed to repeat it.’ Canadians are doomed by
> continuing to believe the Liberal Party.
>
>
>
> John Cooper
>
> NOT a Liberal!
>
>
>
> *From:* fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Dave Arthur
> *Sent:* November-27-16 6:28 PM
> *To:* FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Monsef on CBC The House
>
>
>
> Luisa is dismayed by Monsef’s comments as are we and plans to write about
> it this week.
>
> She is interested in comments from us and I plan to meet with her.
>
> I would like to receive any comments you can send my way.
>
> The problems in concise form would be best.
>
> Do we know for sure what the picture has been at all the meetings across
> the country?
>
> And the business of the straw votes?
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> *From:* Sharon Sommerville
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 27, 2016 12:08 PM
>
> *To:* FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>
> *Subject:* Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Monsef on CBC The House
>
>
>
> Thanks for sharing Monsef's interview Eleanor.
>
>
>
> Reading the Waterloo Region town hall report, one could see why Monsef
> would say that there was no consensus for change which was part of her
> message in this interview.  If the WR report was indicative of other MP
> town hall reports then we have a self fulfilling process.
>
>
>
> She stated that she heard from passionate folks supporting PR & FPTP.  I
> have attended 4 consultation meetings: three town halls and one ERRE
> committee open mic meeting.  There was no strong support for FPTP at any of
> those meetings.  All meetings were in SW Ont. or Toronto, so that may bias
> the views.
>
>
>
> She stated that FVC's statement that the straw vote at the beginning of
> each of her town halls didn't included a vote on PR.  We have our town hall
> on video & I would like to review that segment of the meeting. Don't know
> if it is on our website yet, if not I will be in touch with Laurel to see
> if we can take a look at the section of the meeting. I remember the straw
> poll but don't recall if there was a vote on PR or if it was simply for a
> more general electoral system change. Does anyone else have a clear memory
> of the vote?
>
>
>
> One thing that she didn't confirm was the strong, clear and definitive
> policy that all Liberal MPs campaigned on.  That seems to be forgotten.
>
>
>
> We should write to The House to remind the Liberals of their campaign
> promise.
>
>
>
> Thanks again Eleanor, very interesting and a great help!
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sharon
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> 10-minute interview with host Chris Hall, Sat Nov 26:
>
> http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thehouse/catherine-mckenna-on-
> her-green-blueprint-and-dealing-with-trump-1.3868982?autoplay=true
>
> Segment starts at apx 22:22
>
> What do you think?
>
> Eleanor
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
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>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com>
> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 00:14:52 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Monsef no electoral reform.
> Listening carefully to this interview ...
>
>  Evan cornered Monsef on
>
> 1. all the committee members except Liberals (wow Cons?) say they have
> heard that the people want PR ... so what if the committee recommends PR?
> ... she will take it seriously ... but said she knows what she heard,
> implying that she has heard differently ... which we all dispute
> 2. what if the committee recommends a referendum ... she doesn't like
> referenda because not enough people participate and they are divisive ...
> (I don't want a referendum but for different reasons (voter apathy re
> educating themselves first))
> 3. if you don't listen to the committee and don't have a referendum how
> will you determine the broad consensus that you seek? ... she mentioned the
> mail-out question and called it a 'digital' ask ... I guess that means we
> respond online.
>
> In summary ... we aren't getting it, no matter what the indications are.
>
> In the back of my mind, I still have the idea that the Liberal machine
> wants to enjoy a couple of majorities and THEN we might get it when it
> looks like power is fading ... Even if they were to get a surprise
> minority, they could always count on NDP and Green support for PR. I would
> rather have that than get a non-PR solution now.
>
> But I just can't fathom Conservative support for PR ... can you? ... they
> will never ever get another majority ... I just don't believe it.
>
> On 27 November 2016 at 21:39, Sharon Sommerville <
> sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Sean, she will not accept any responsibility for the LPC campaign
>> promise. Her interview with Don Martin wasn't so definitive & a little more
>> hopeful.
>>
>> Broad support?  How about leadership?  Never a mention of the nature,
>> role & responsibilities of leadership.  We didn't elect the LPC to
>> reflect what Cdns. think about ER, we elected them to lead on this
>> issue.  It is what they promised to do and they should be held accountable
>> for it.
>>
>> Sharon
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 8:22 PM, haberlin at gmail.com <haberlin at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/no-electoral-reform-until-eno
>>> ugh-canadians-want-it-monsef-says-1.3177209
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So no reform this time around.  However, media outlets have begun
>>> casting PR in a favorable light, the Tories have shown support for PR and
>>> in the next election there is the opportunity to point to the perfidious
>>> nature of Liberal promises as a launching point for PR.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cordially
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sean B. Haberlin
>>>
>>> 91 Park St. Waterloo ON N2L 1Y2
>>>
>>> Ph: 519.576.9195 Cell: 519.591.9195
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/m
>>> ailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
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>> istserv.thinkers.org
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>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Anita Nickerson <anitann88 at gmail.com>
> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 00:21:27 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Monsef no electoral reform.
> The Conservatives don't support PR. But they acknowledge what is plainly
> in audio transcripts - that most people who testified before the committee
> spoke for PR.
>
> So...they alternative to FPTP in a referendum they say should be PR, not
> AV.
>
> We already had 4 referendums with that idea so they're not giving us
> anything here by acknowlelging that.
>
> They could pretend to be officially neutral during a referendum which is
> somewhat of a joke when their MPs and media will be doing the anti-PR
> talking.
>
> Anita
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 12:14 AM, Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Listening carefully to this interview ...
>>
>>  Evan cornered Monsef on
>>
>> 1. all the committee members except Liberals (wow Cons?) say they have
>> heard that the people want PR ... so what if the committee recommends PR?
>> ... she will take it seriously ... but said she knows what she heard,
>> implying that she has heard differently ... which we all dispute
>> 2. what if the committee recommends a referendum ... she doesn't like
>> referenda because not enough people participate and they are divisive ...
>> (I don't want a referendum but for different reasons (voter apathy re
>> educating themselves first))
>> 3. if you don't listen to the committee and don't have a referendum how
>> will you determine the broad consensus that you seek? ... she mentioned the
>> mail-out question and called it a 'digital' ask ... I guess that means we
>> respond online.
>>
>> In summary ... we aren't getting it, no matter what the indications are.
>>
>> In the back of my mind, I still have the idea that the Liberal machine
>> wants to enjoy a couple of majorities and THEN we might get it when it
>> looks like power is fading ... Even if they were to get a surprise
>> minority, they could always count on NDP and Green support for PR. I would
>> rather have that than get a non-PR solution now.
>>
>> But I just can't fathom Conservative support for PR ... can you? ... they
>> will never ever get another majority ... I just don't believe it.
>>
>> On 27 November 2016 at 21:39, Sharon Sommerville <
>> sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Sean, she will not accept any responsibility for the LPC
>>> campaign promise. Her interview with Don Martin wasn't so definitive & a
>>> little more hopeful.
>>>
>>> Broad support?  How about leadership?  Never a mention of the nature,
>>> role & responsibilities of leadership.  We didn't elect the LPC to
>>> reflect what Cdns. think about ER, we elected them to lead on this
>>> issue.  It is what they promised to do and they should be held accountable
>>> for it.
>>>
>>> Sharon
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 8:22 PM, haberlin at gmail.com <haberlin at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/no-electoral-reform-until-eno
>>>> ugh-canadians-want-it-monsef-says-1.3177209
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So no reform this time around.  However, media outlets have begun
>>>> casting PR in a favorable light, the Tories have shown support for PR and
>>>> in the next election there is the opportunity to point to the perfidious
>>>> nature of Liberal promises as a launching point for PR.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cordially
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sean B. Haberlin
>>>>
>>>> 91 Park St. Waterloo ON N2L 1Y2
>>>>
>>>> Ph: 519.576.9195 Cell: 519.591.9195
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/m
>>>> ailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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