[fvc-wat-disc] Letters to the Editor Needed

Sat Feb 4 22:53:52 EST 2017

I think my suggestion was misunderstood ...

I was not suggesting that Green candidates step aside for the election

I was suggesting that Leadnow and FVC be partisan for one election to use
all their resources, know-how, organization, enthusiasm, and energy to work
to get an NDP government FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of getting MMPR

Green workers in both organizations could still vote for and work for a
local Green candidate if they wished ... only that they would work as an
*organization* to elect the NDP

This is not rocket science ... in fact it imitates MMPR in that everyone in
the 2 groups work for the NDP but vote locally for whom they like ... if
the NDP got elected and gave us MMPR then everything would change as we all
know. In fact the 2 organizations would probably disband or morph into
something else.

I simply look at this as another way to get PR ... adapting to the Liberal
decision

On 4 February 2017 at 17:21, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:

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> Hi Stuart: Thanx for the encouraging words.
>
> As a Green, I have no illusions about our chances of gaining a seat in
> Waterloo Region in the next election. If any local Greens *are*
> elected, it will likely be as a third-place opposition party, and
> that's where we will work with the other parties to achieve Electoral
> Reform.
>
> If, by some fluke, the Greens were to win a majority position in
> Parliament (or the provincial Legislature) I can only hope that I
> don't succumb to the ravages of the power-mad, and have the integrity
> to follow through with changing the very system that elected us in the
> first place. We can see how that conviction and integrity is lacking
> in the current government.
>
> I joined the Greens, and not the Liberals or the NDP, for that very
> reason.
>
> - --Bob.
>
>
> On 2017-02-04 08:51 AM, STUART CHANDLER wrote:
> > Thanks Bob. I greatly value your perspective.
> >
> > I followed you all the way dow to your last sentence.
> >
> > Then found myself wondering how the Greens, if they (miraculously)
> > came to power after campaigning on implementing PR, would fail
> > then to have the courage to implement it.
> >
> > Unlike the Liberals, who like to see themselves as "the Natural
> > Ruling Party" in Canada, surely they would not believe they had
> > enough political capital to get away with going‎ back on such a
> > key promise and still retain their seats.
> >
> > In my view, the Liberals are banking on 4 things: 1) Canadians
> > still ‎being traumatized by what Harper did to this Country 2)
> > still being taken-in by Trudeau's good looks and seemingly affable
> > personality, and still willing to give him a chance 3) the lack of
> > any real sign of an equally charismatic leader emerging in the
> > other 2 main parties 4) the political capital of the Liberal
> > Party.
> >
> > Unfortunately, an amazing country like Canada is sadly lacking ‎in
> > the political leadership department. (Part of the legacy of our
> > FPTP system!)
> >
> > Well, at least one Liberal MP has had the courage and integrity to
> > apologize for his party's reversal on E. R.
> >
> > Still in the fight. Stu.
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
> >> Original Message From: Bob Jonkman Sent: Saturday, February 4,
> 2017 2:19 AM
> > To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion Reply To: FVC Waterloo Region
> > Discussion Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Letters to the Editor
> > Needed
> >
> > Donald Fraser wrote:
> >> However, down the road, electing an NDP government will
> >> automatically get us MMPR
> >
> > In all the provinces in which the NDP has formed government, they
> > have never acted to implement any kind of electoral reform,
> > especially not Proportional Representation.
> >
> > And although it is ostensibly part of their policy, neither
> > Electoral Reform nor Proportional Representation was on the NDP
> > election platform for the 2015 election. There was no mention of
> > ER/PR on the NDP website during the election, and questions about
> > its absence went unanswered by the NDP candidates or the
> > webmaster.
> >
> >> I think that the Green Party would be OK with such an effort as
> >> they would benefit perhaps the most from MMPR.
> >
> > The Green Party will be happy to cooperate with other parties in
> > implementing Electoral Reform and Proportional Representation.
> > However, don't expect that Green candidates will step aside;
> > instead, Green candidates will campaign vigorously to get
> > Canadians the representation in Parliament they vote for.
> >
> > --Bob.
> >
> >
> > On 2017-02-03 11:08 PM, Donald Fraser wrote:
> >> I understand Anita's point that it is too early to start election
> >>  plans
> >
> >> However, down the road, electing an NDP government will
> >> automatically get us MMPR
> >
> >> I think that the Green Party would be OK with such an effort as
> >> they would benefit perhaps the most from MMPR.
> >
> >> I have to say that the Liberals are being pummeled from all sides
> >>  now. They knew they were going to pay a huge price for this
> >> decision. For that reason, I highly doubt they will reverse same
> >>  ... reversing now probably wouldn't do them much good; that is,
> >> it wouldn't repair the damage they have already suffered.
> >
> >> But I'm always game to show my displeasure in one way or the
> >> other.
> >
> >> However, apart from the odd demonstration, what are our long term
> >>  possibilities as a group for the next 3 years?
> >
> >> cheers, Don
> >
> >> On 3 February 2017 at 22:52, Jon Bathmaker
> >> <jon.bathmaker at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> I think we should choose the one that makes them look the
> >>> worst. With that criterion BETRAYAL seems to be the winner.
> >>>
> >>> Best, Jon
> >>>
> >>> On 2/3/2017 10:45 PM, Anita Nickerson wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Which do you like better for the hat?
> >>>
> >>> REAL LIES or REAL BETRAYAL
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:30 PM, Sharon Sommerville <
> >>> sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello All,
> >>>>
> >>>> We are going to have to do a lot of writing in the coming
> >>>> weeks. Please remember that you don't have to write the
> >>>> letters, another person can write if you can submit or you
> >>>> can write a letter and have someone else submit it. We need
> >>>> writers and submitters.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks to Donald for an excellent response to Ms. Smith's
> >>>> article. We need one more. Can someone volunteer to write and
> >>>>  or submit a response to Ms. Smith's article? It would need
> >>>> to be submitted by Sunday evening
> >>>>
> >>>> We need a supportive letter for Luisa's article. Is there
> >>>> someone who can write/submit it. This one should be easy.
> >>>> Again, it should be in by Sunday pm.
> >>>>
> >>>> We need at least two responses to today's editorial. One
> >>>> should be from FVC-WR which I can draft and send round to our
> >>>> bd. members so we need one more. Any takers? Again, you can
> >>>> write but not submit or offer to submit but not write.
> >>>>
> >>>> A march to Raj's office from KCH would be doable. Someone
> >>>> could book an appointment with him (underhanded yes, but the
> >>>> gloves are off) and we could arrive with the toque which has
> >>>> been modified to read: REAL LIES or REAL BETRAYAL (that's
> >>>> still the plan, isn't it?). I have a pair of Liberal socks
> >>>> which I no longer need. Gummie rats (sealed in plastic about
> >>>> 3oz.) can be purchased on line. I was thinking of sending one
> >>>> of the pair to Trudeau filled with gummie rats, be happy to
> >>>> make up another one to give to Raj.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here are the rats:
> >>>> https://www.jellybelly.com/gummi-pet-rat/p/5148
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally not in favour of the coffin as it has been used to
> >>>>  death (!) for all kinds of causes but lots of signs, and a
> >>>> media alert and facebooking etc. Plus it would be fun.
> >>>>
> >>>> Happy to start up a "I will not vote for you again" petition
> >>>> at all our upcoming events, give a focus to our summer
> >>>> festival tables.
> >>>>
> >>>> And, my home will be open for a meeting this Monday at 7 pm
> >>>> for anyone who wants to come to plan the next few months.
> >>>>
> >>>> Onward! Sharon
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 7:34 PM, arthurd23 arthurd23
> >>>> <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Lots of letters to the editor in The Star and Globe.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There was also a consensus with almost all of them
> >>>>> castigating Trudeau.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One opposing view - The Record editorial. Surprise!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do we have some letters being sent to The Record?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave A
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Donald Fraser
> >>>>>  <donaldafraser at gmail.com> Date: February 3, 2017 at 12:15
> >>>>> PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'll pick the negative one ... just love a scrap ... so
> >>>>> here's my response
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ======================================================
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dear Editor,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Re: The political fallout of breaking a promise by Joanna
> >>>>> Smith_Feb3_2017
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ms Smith asks, “But what of the majority of Canadians? Do
> >>>>> they care? Does it matter?” in reference to Electoral
> >>>>> Reform (ER).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It matters. In our system of First Past the Post (FPTP),
> >>>>> votes cast for a Green candidate, for example, who loses
> >>>>> are useless. The Planet-caring, environmentally conscious,
> >>>>>  politically aware voters in the particular riding have no
> >>>>> say in Ottawa. A certain percentage of all Canadians want
> >>>>> Green objectives to be part of the laws of Canada.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It matters because these environmentalists should have
> >>>>> their say in the structure of government. In a
> >>>>> proportional system, for instance, every vote counts to
> >>>>> obtain the same percentage of seats for a party as the
> >>>>> party received in the national vote count.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It matters because they may not vote in the next election,
> >>>>>  knowing that their votes won’t count.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I matters because, due to discouragement, they may cease to
> >>>>>  engage in the political discussion and the environment
> >>>>> will suffer for it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Later Smith states, “Then there is a much larger group that
> >>>>>  knows little and cares less about ER” in reference to the
> >>>>>  Canadian electorate at large.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> “... knows little and cares less ... “ is simply cause and
> >>>>>  effect. Unfortunately, it is difficult to excite the
> >>>>> electorate about ER possibilities when they “know little”.
> >>>>>  Attempts to educate the public about ER are generally
> >>>>> regarded as “election activity” which annoys citizens
> >>>>> between elections. To be fair there is a small percentage
> >>>>> which does respond with enthusiasm.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> New Zealand (NZ) solved the problem by having a trial run
> >>>>> at Mixed Member PR (MMPR) for four terms. The electorate
> >>>>> was educated by experience and when consulted after the
> >>>>> trial, voted for MMPR over the former FPTP system. Their
> >>>>> experience demonstrates that an educated public will choose
> >>>>> a proportional alternative to our antiquated and unfair
> >>>>> FPTP which wastes the votes of any citizen whose local
> >>>>> candidate did not win in their riding.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Germany has practiced MMPR since WW2. The resulting stable
> >>>>>  form of coalition government has allowed Germans to become
> >>>>>  the master long term planners we recognize them for. They
> >>>>>  avoid the 'Policy Pendulum' in which false majority
> >>>>> governments cancel, at great expense to the taxpayer, the
> >>>>> projects of the preceding government. Rather each new
> >>>>> government improves and supports policies of the previous
> >>>>> government.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yours Truly,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Donald A Fraser,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 184 Forsyth Drive,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Waterloo, Ontario,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> N2L-1A2
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 519-576-9210 <%28519%29%20576-9210>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 2 February 2017 at 23:02, Sharon Sommerville <
> >>>>> sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hello FairVoting Friends,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Two great articles in today's Record for us to respond to:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www. therecord.com/news-
> >>>>> story/7100196-the-political-
> >>>>> fallout-of-breaking-a-promise/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www. therecord.com/ opinion-story/7098054-d- amato-
> >>>>>  broken-promise-may-haunt- liberals/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We should capitalize on these articles with letters to the
> >>>>>  editor. A couple of letters in response to each letter
> >>>>> would be wonderful. Any number would be great.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Have sent the request out to our larger discussion list as
> >>>>>  some new names would be helpful!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let me know if you can take either of these on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With thanks, Sharon
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> - --
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>
> - --
> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
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