[fvc-wat-disc] Liberals on PR ~ Bardish Chagger & Raj Saini
Laurel L. Russwurm
laurel.l at russwurm.org
Thu Mar 16 17:33:05 EDT 2017
Dear Stuart:
I'm glad you like the videos, and the reason I've produced them is to
make it easier to hold our elected MPs to account.
That said, I am uncomfortable with the idea of making threats that we
will prevent anyone from being re-elected. Among other things, that is
one reason those who achieve power via FPTP want to keep it... when our
votes don't count it is really tough to do. That's what happened in
2015 and we are clearly no better off. [Say next time we elect the
NDP... and then they don't do PR... then after that, it will be the
Conservatives turn again? This dance must stop. Public opinion is our
friend, and it is building. Trudeau pulled the plug because it is growing.]
In my experience it is always better to enlist support than have a
negative confrontation and make an enemy. I have an idea Bardish is
aware of the videos, and would no doubt prefer them to go away. They
are already public and getting watched and shared. By all means, when
you call oor write or tweet to her, mention you've just seen one of them
and been reminded how ardently she supported the pivotal PR promise in
the election. Tell her how disappointed you are that she's let you down.
The way to apply positive pressure is to make them count by helping them
spread. Share them and other PR videos and keep sharing them. If every
one who wants PR shared 5 pro-PR things with their social network every
day, we will keep the momentum building.
I understand people worry that if they share too much political stuff
they will alienate their family and friends, but unless that is all you
ever post, that is not likely. Among other things, both Facebook and
Twitter social networks limit how much of what we post gets shared to
our friend's timelines, so even if you share 5 things, most of them
won't be seen by most of your friends and family.
Keeping this alive and growing can change Liberal Policy. Better they
figure this out now while there is still time to have PR for 2019.
There is a lot more out there besides Fair Vote stuff -->
http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/resources/
I've been writing articles [ https://whoacanada.wordpress.com/ ] and
making graphics [ https://www.flickr.com/photos/laurelrusswurm/albums/]
as well as videos [https://www.youtube.com/user/LaurelRusswurm/videos]
for well over a year, but there is*a lot more* out there... search
Google or YouTube or Facebook or Twitter or Flickr or Tumblr anywhere
you go online for "Proportional Representation" or "Electoral Reform"
There is a great new February 11th video from Toronto here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9FoyOIi3q0
Share, and share some more. Educate people who don't know, encourage
everyone you know to keep calling & visiting Bardish and all the rest.
The Dutch election came out well because they have PR. Their Trump
earned only the support he deserved (and none of the other parties will
ever make a coalition with him)
There is also a growing push for PR in the UK (thanks to UKIP) and USA
(Trump) ... it isn't just here, it's everywhere, and that helps us too.
We are on the right track.
Regards,
Laurel
On 03/16/2017 08:14 AM, STUART CHANDLER wrote:
> Thanks so much, Laurel.
> These videos are dy-no-mite!
> To see Chagger repeat, over, and over again her commitment to ER, and
> making every vote equal, and effective. And promise legislation within
> 18 months.
> I'm thinking that, particularly considering the importance of her
> position, there may be something to be gained if some of her
> constituents put her on notice that they possess the videos, and will
> use them extensively in 2019 to unseat her. If she was led to believe
> the threat was serious enough (eg: "We have formed a group, and are
> building a fund to pay for the anti-Chagger, anti-liar campaign. We
> promise that 2015 will be the last time you get elected!"), AND THAT
> HER ONLY WAY OUT would be to get ER back on the Liberal agenda (along
> with an apology stating that there was more support for ER than they
> thought), it might be enough to motivate her. It can be added that we
> (it'd be good to come up with a catchy name for the group, partly so
> it is not conflated with Fair Vote) are working on supporting similar
> groups in other ridings. (in fact, it would be good to indicate that
> this idea came from another group in another Liberal-held riding)
> Without such serious pressure tactics, I don't think there's a chance
> Cheers.
> Stu.
> PS: I'm just sending this to 3 of you to make sure of no leaks.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
> *From: *Laurel L. Russwurm
> *Sent: *Wednesday, March 15, 2017 2:03 AM
> *To: *fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Liberals on PR ~ Bardish Chagger & Raj Saini
>
>
> Videos can only go viral if people share them.
>
> Bardish has not done what she personally promised re PR, not even
> close. Raj either. And we have video on both you can watch before
> talking to your MP.
>
> I've just posted another soundbite from the 2015 All Candidates
> Meeting (1 minute video)
>
> PR4Canada: Bardish Chagger ~ Representation
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piEsxsekJ6I
>
> Bardish Chagger: 4 Questions
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abUOn9pi5Lc
>
> and
>
> Bardish Chagger: an Electoral System based on the Principle of
> Fairness (just under 5 minutes)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE6lyNJrl6U&t=5s There's also
>
> Raj Saini on Proportional Representation
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlAUTMXRPnc&t=449s
>
> The video from the three FVC All Candidates meetings all the
> candidates expressed support for PR, all were on the same side.
> (Probably part of why there were no such events in Cambridge or Kit-SH>
>
> Bardish talks about how interested people were at the door, how
> crowded in the event.
> Bardish and Raj both talk about the consultation, how it should be
> done. They did not do it that way.
>
> Every LPC MP in WR was asked to make sure the ERRE Committee came
> here. It did not.
>
> Monsef did, and all 4 LPC MPs used that as their consultation. It
> should have been as well as, not instead of.
>
> There was little or no advertising done for Monsef, all the dates were
> last minute, so people couldn't plan.
>
> The LPC did NOT do a good job of consulting. Every LPC MP needed to
> host at LEAST one (better more) consultation events.
>
> Blaming the failure of the consultation on Canadians is bushwah.
>
> Share the videos. They can still have PR in place in time if they
> move fast. If not, it is important that people are informed before
> the next election, and we really want them to remember this, so share
> the videos :)
>
> Regards,
> Laurel
>
>
>
>
> On 03/12/2017 10:21 PM, Donald Fraser wrote:
>> well done, Martha
>>
>> On 12 March 2017 at 22:15, STUART CHANDLER <stuchandler43 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:stuchandler43 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Martha.
>> Great to hear your points & experience with Bardish.
>> I can appreciate that you'd be frustrated with someone claiming
>> commitment to electoral reform, yet not pursuing it " for the
>> greater good" of all Canadians. I'm certain that anyone so
>> committed would in fact be convinced that the greater good of all
>> would be served by proceding with ER.
>> As it was she who called you, she'd make sur she had all her
>> rhetoric in order before picking up the phone. Hard to deal with
>> that level of preperation.
>> Nice work. And thanks again.
>> Best regards.
>> Stu.
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
>> Original Message
>> From: Martha Lauzon
>> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:39 PM
>> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Reply To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>> Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] Phone convo with Bardish Chagger
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I don't write in much here, just tend to lurk (and take action
>> where appropriate--e.g., pestering Bardish)
>>
>> Bardish Chagger just called me to chat about electoral reform. A
>> lot of what she was saying was basically talking points, i.e., we
>> need to govern for all Canadians, not just people like you & me
>> who are knowledgeable. Well, yes, but if you see a problem with a
>> lack of knowledge, perhaps the government should launch an
>> education campaign? She claims that's what the new bill C33 does,
>> which I was skeptical about, but since I haven't read the bill, I
>> wasn't able to speak to the point. I did mention the new Local PR
>> initiative taking off in Guelph, whose name escaped me on the
>> phone, but which turns up with a quick Google search. She said
>> she would look into it, and just in case she gets stuck, I'm
>> about to send her a link. Because I'm helpful like that.
>>
>> I'm concerned because she says that many constituents approached
>> her after the town halls, saying that they had felt that FVC
>> folks were very dismissive of opinions that run counter to ours,
>> and that instead of being brought in to the conversation, they
>> felt driven away. Assuming that she's not making this up, perhaps
>> this is something we could work on, to be more welcoming and
>> information-dispensing, and a little less judgy. Many of us have
>> been working on this for years and years, and it can be easy to
>> get impatient with people who are just hearing about PR for the
>> first time, especially if they don't see the light right out of
>> the gate.
>>
>> She also claimed that the Liberals had conducted a poll, and
>> while most people they talked to advocated reform, once they
>> asked people what system they preferred, FPTP came out the
>> winner. I asked her if this survey and its results were public,
>> because I'd LOVE to see the actual questions that were asked, but
>> she dodged that one.
>>
>> She also had the nerve to champion the mydemocracy.ca
>> <http://mydemocracy.ca> survey. I may be reading more into her
>> explanation than she intended, but what I heard was that they
>> deliberately didn't ask any questions related to electoral reform
>> because people aren't educated. I tried to explain to her that
>> that was BS because they could have constructed questions that
>> addressed PR without using any of the PR jargon, but she stuck to
>> her guns that what they really cared about was people's values
>> (and "hard working people everywhere").
>>
>> So, all in all, a little frustrating. She insisted several times
>> that she herself was committed to electoral reform but now that
>> they're governing for all Canadians they need to set personal
>> preferences aside in favour of the greater good yada yada yada. I
>> *am* impressed, because this is the first time in my 40-odd years
>> that my MP has chosen to call me to address issues that I've
>> contacted them about. Usually, I'm doing well with a polite
>> written PFO.
>>
>> Y'all may be receiving your own phone calls soon.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Martha
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: fvc-wat-disc [fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org>] on behalf of
>> fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> [fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org>]
>> Sent: March 12, 2017 12:00 PM
>> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Subject: fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 96, Issue 11
>>
>> Send fvc-wat-disc mailing list submissions to
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: been monitoring Chagger-Tweet (STUART CHANDLER)
>> 2. Re: Chagger tweets (fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 96, Issue 10)
>> (Eleanor Grant)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 19:02:06 -0500
>> From: STUART CHANDLER <stuchandler43 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:stuchandler43 at gmail.com>>
>> To: Donald Fraser <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>>, FVC Waterloo
>> Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] been monitoring Chagger-Tweet
>> Message-ID: <20170312000206.6107221.43418.12964 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:20170312000206.6107221.43418.12964 at gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 21:31:55 -0500
>> From: Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:eleanor7000 at gmail.com>>
>> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Chagger tweets (fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol
>> 96, Issue 10)
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAEYE8EB4=WJ0Ac_Xn3zsryTdGLzJu67SesEy_d7quwwt8z0V8w at mail.gmail.com
>> <mailto:WJ0Ac_Xn3zsryTdGLzJu67SesEy_d7quwwt8z0V8w at mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Donald, what's your Twitter handle?
>> Follow me @eleanor70001 .
>>
>>
>> On 11 Mar 2017 18:13, <fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org>> wrote:
>>
>> > Send fvc-wat-disc mailing list submissions to
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>> > http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_
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>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org>
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>> > than "Re: Contents of fvc-wat-disc digest..."
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. been monitoring Chagger-Tweet (Donald Fraser)
>> > 2. Re: been monitoring Chagger-Tweet (Donald Fraser)
>> > 3. Re: been monitoring Chagger-Tweet (Jon Bathmaker)
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com
>> <mailto:donaldafraser at gmail.com>>
>> > To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>> <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>>
>> > Cc:
>> > Bcc:
>> > Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 17:45:35 -0500
>> > Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] been monitoring Chagger-Tweet
>> > not much substance ... mostly meet & greets ... social events
>> ... so far
>> > nothing about which I could tell her "it would go better with
>> PR". (I have
>> > a lot better luck with Trump-Tweet ... lots of ammunition there!)
>> >
>> > cheers,
>> > Don
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com
>> <mailto:donaldafraser at gmail.com>>
>> > To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>> <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>>
>> > Cc:
>> > Bcc:
>> > Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 17:58:48 -0500
>> > Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] been monitoring Chagger-Tweet
>> > NO sooner did I speak when she gave me an opportunity!
>> >
>> > On 11 March 2017 at 17:45, Donald Fraser
>> <donaldafraser at gmail.com <mailto:donaldafraser at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> not much substance ... mostly meet & greets ... social events
>> ... so far
>> >> nothing about which I could tell her "it would go better with
>> PR". (I have
>> >> a lot better luck with Trump-Tweet ... lots of ammunition there!)
>> >>
>> >> cheers,
>> >> Don
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: Jon Bathmaker <jon.bathmaker at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jon.bathmaker at gmail.com>>
>> > To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> > Cc:
>> > Bcc:
>> > Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 18:13:02 -0500
>> > Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] been monitoring Chagger-Tweet
>> >
>> > Good work Don!
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Jon
>> > On 3/11/2017 5:58 PM, Donald Fraser wrote:
>> >
>> > NO sooner did I speak when she gave me an opportunity!
>> >
>> > On 11 March 2017 at 17:45, Donald Fraser
>> <donaldafraser at gmail.com <mailto:donaldafraser at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> not much substance ... mostly meet & greets ... social events
>> ... so far
>> >> nothing about which I could tell her "it would go better with
>> PR". (I have
>> >> a lot better luck with Trump-Tweet ... lots of ammunition there!)
>> >>
>> >> cheers,
>> >> Don
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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