[fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardish
Evan Rosamond
erosamond at worldline.ca
Tue Nov 21 00:25:03 EST 2017
Hey Waterloonians,
It's a relief that you seem to have decided not to be intimidated. Since
I live in Kitchener, it seems I've been uninvited to Ms Chaggar's
gathering.
When you get to Bardish's office have your points all ready. Here's a
sample of stuff you might want to talk about:
* As far as we can tell from polls and our own door-knocking campaign,
approximately 2/3 of the voters want the government to keep
Trudeau's promise of 2015.
* The main reason for all this is fairness. As much as possible we
want a system fair to parties (number of seats proportional to a
party's actual support), fair to candidates (no need for strategic
voting), and fair to voters (nearly all votes should help some
candidate get elected).
* There is still time to get PR installed for the 2019 election, but
the government will have to reverse their reversal soon.
* However, there is no longer enough time to redraw the election map.
This means that MMP and all its variations can't be considered if we
want a fair election in 2019. That leaves only a 2-level open list
system or one of the many variants of STV.
* Any sort of PR will cost the Liberals some seats, based on 2015
results. but it would give them more seats based on 2011 results.
But since there will be minority governments nearly all the time,
the Liberals could find themselves on the government side more or
less perpetually, but they will have to share it.
* PR will also give all national parties some MPs from all parts of
Canada.
Good luck!
Evan Rosamond
On 11/20/2017 5:04 PM, Dave Arthur wrote:
> However, Bardish is a cabinet minister and isn’t she, as a member of
> the cabinet with responsibilities for Small Business and Tourism and
> Government House Leader, responsible to all Canadians, not just her
> own constituents????
> May I add that we must meet with her in a positive manner in any case.
> In my two meetings with her she becomes defensive quickly and can
> demean those who don’t agree with her or with the Trudeau government.
> However, it is our job to be ready for this and to have solid,
> well-prepared points to counter this.
> Dave A
> *From:* Stephanie Janzen-Martin
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 1:34 PM
> *To:* FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardish
> Hi Anita,
> Thanks for that info. Very useful. :)
> SJM
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 12:59 PM Anita Nickerson <anitann88 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi folks. I'm only partially following this discussion.. but if
> it's that Bardish's office wants the names and addresses of all
> attendees, so that they will only allow people who live in the
> riding to attend, in organizing MP visits with Liberals across the
> country in the past 1-2 years, that's pretty common practice for
> the assistant to require that. Sometimes you can give them a few
> names and addresses and then kinda add other people in who just
> show up with you. But they don't want to deal with non-constituents.
> Anita
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Mary Jackes <mkj at bell.net> wrote:
>
> Yes, indeed. Anything other than a polite approach to a
> politician is completely counter-productive. Perhaps simply
> asking for clarification? That could present the opportunity
> to say that we find a requirement of details on the visiting
> group unprecedented.
>
> Based on 13 years of association with Fair Vote and other
> groups here in Waterloo, plus years in Alberta, I would say
> such a request is unprecedented. And it's for that reason
> that I find asking for names and addresses odd. Definitely
> "intimidation" comes in different forms in different countries
> (I've worked in several where intimidation could mean really
> bad things - for me up to and including a wall and a
> sub-machine gun in one country and being chased by armed goons
> through the night in another). But in Canadian
> terms.......... My reaction to Stu's email was that
> "intimidating" was a reasonable word for him to have used, in
> the sense of inducing anxiety.
>
> Mary.
>
> On 11/20/2017 10:16 AM, Stephanie Janzen-Martin wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Thank you for the responses. I am all in favour of pushing
>> MPs (respectfully), on policy issues. My only concern with
>> how this email thread was going was that it seemed to be
>> veering into territory that seemed unnecessarily harsh and
>> negative - if we see our MP as treating people as second
>> class citizens and intimidation etc, those are big claims,
>> and I hesitate to throw them around lightly. (I've lived
>> places where that is a real threat, and that kind of stuff
>> actually does happen, and it looks very different from this -
>> trust me! :)) Not that there isn't maybe a way that Bardish
>> could have handled this better, but jumping to intimidation
>> just seems unrealistic to me - especially since, as far I can
>> tell, nobody has even asked her why she wanted the info.
>> Feels like a lot of negative speculation that is very thin on
>> facts. :)
>> Why would we confront Bardish (even if it is done politely)
>> and tell her that some people didn't like her request, and
>> are accusing her of intimidation, when we haven't even
>> bothered to ask her why she asked for the info in the first
>> place? Shouldn't we learn more first?
>> Let's have a great chat with Bardish about PR and policy, and
>> be smart and clear-headed about it. Let's not jump to falsely
>> positive conclusions (overly naive), but let's also not jump
>> to falsely negative conclusions (overly cynical).
>> Thoughts?
>> SJM
>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:59 AM STUART CHANDLER
>> <stuchandler43 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stephanie (and all)
>> I, for one, certainly value your viewpoint. It's good to
>> know you've had a positive experience working with
>> Bardish's office.
>> Personally, I always approach life from the perspective
>> of "Expect the Best", so, I want there to be no
>> misunderstanding of my intent. I agree 100% that we
>> should approach EVERY meeting with ANY person or group
>> from that positive perspective.
>> However, I believe it is wise to consider all factors
>> before such a meeting, so as not to be blind-sided by
>> something that, in retrospect we should have seen coming.
>> And we are left standing with mouths agape, not knowing
>> what say in response. I also believe it is possible to
>> say challenging things in very respectful ways.
>> In my opinion, the best way to approach this would be to
>> respectfully advise her office of how the email is being
>> received by some people, and to add the assurance that we
>> imagine that reaction was not intended.
>> I have identified 3 reactions: 1) surprise and concern
>> over the introduction of a new practice in the visit to
>> the MP's office. 2) the feeling of intimidation
>> generated. 3) the feeling of possible exclusion (or being
>> considered 2nd-class) if a prospective visitor lives in a
>> different riding.
>> As we are a group that is focused on the promotion of
>> increased Democracy, I suggest that before we passively
>> accept a new practice by an MP, we consider if it is
>> likely to advance the cause of Democracy (and access to
>> MPs) or more likely to have the opposite effect. To me,
>> this seems to have the opposite effect. And an MP should
>> be respectfully advised.
>> Sincerely.
>> Stu.
>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
>> *From: *Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>> *Sent: *Monday, November 20, 2017 9:00 AM
>>
>> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardisheach
>> meeting
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I'll add my thoughts in here, if you don't mind. I am not
>> a particular fan of the liberals (I'm NDP/Green) - but I
>> have had several issues where I have been working with
>> Bardish's office (here and Ottawa) for the last year or
>> so. She and her staff have been extremely polite,
>> positive and helpful, while working with me on big
>> questions, despite there being no immediate fix
>> available. (On another issue, they worked very hard with
>> me over several weeks and found an immediate solution,
>> which was great!)
>> Maybe she really is trying to secretly intimidate the
>> opposition by getting logistical info, or maybe this is a
>> simple misunderstanding that is being escalated every
>> time someone else responds in the email thread. If so, I
>> am sure that any meeting we might get with her in this
>> issue will be compromised if we go in assuming the worst.
>> How can we expect to work for positive change if we are
>> so convinced of such negative things about her, based on
>> so little info? If that is how the meeting is going to be
>> started, then I'd rather not be a part of it, since I
>> already have a great working relationship with her and
>> her staff, and I don't want to jeopardize it with these
>> negative assumptions.
>> All I'm saying is that I would give the benefit of the
>> doubt and get more info before assuming intimidation... :)
>> Hope that helps,
>> SJM
>> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 1:09 PM Mary Jackes
>> <mkj at bell.net> wrote:
>>
>> I must say that this leaves an unpleasant taste in
>> the mouth. It feels like intimidation.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> On 11/18/2017 9:21 AM, STUART CHANDLER wrote:
>>> Thanks Sharon for passing the Bardish email along.
>>> Holy crap!! More proof that Bardish has a HUGE
>>> amount of nerve, and indulges in covert/overt
>>> intimidation (although I'm sure she would cleverly
>>> try to sell it as "genuine interest in her
>>> constituants". I have no doubt that she has a
>>> pretty clear sense of the effect that "interest" (in
>>> having the names and addresses of those interested
>>> in visiting her office - particularly if coming with
>>> intent to complain or challenge) would have on
>>> anyone so inclined.
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers
>>> network.
>>> *From: *Sharon Sommerville
>>> *Sent: *Friday, November 17, 2017 8:08 PM
>>> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardish
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Cathe,
>>> That would be great, thank you! Will
>>> Here is th email that I rec'd today from Bardish's
>>> constituency assistant:
>>>
>>> Hi Sharon,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your email and for your call the other
>>> day, could you please let me know some info about
>>> who would like to meet? Could you please also
>>> provide their Waterloo addresses for our records?
>>>
>>> Thanks and I hope you’re having a great day.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>
>>> In my experience, it is unheard of to screen
>>> constituents for a meeting with a MP. Let me know if
>>> you want to provide Bardish's office with your address.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Sharon
>>>
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>> --
>>
>> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>> Find me at: Menno Adventures...
>> https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
>> Director of Program Development - www.smcegypt.org
>> <http://www.smcegypt.org>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>> Find me at: Menno Adventures...
>> https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
>> Director of Program Development - www.smcegypt.org
>> <http://www.smcegypt.org>
>>
>>
>>
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> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
> Find me at: Menno Adventures...
> https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com Director of
> Program Development - www.smcegypt.org <http://www.smcegypt.org>
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