[fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardish

Tue Nov 21 18:59:31 EST 2017

Thank you Cathy.  Will pass your address along.

Cheers,
Sharon

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:50 PM, Cathy Scott <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi, Sharon
>
> I had said that I would attend the meeting, if the time is possible for
> me.  My address is 213 Sheldon Ave., North, Kitchener.
>
> Cathy
>
>
>
> *From:* fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Sharon Sommerville
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2017 4:22 PM
>
> *To:* FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardish
>
>
>
> Hi Corliss,
>
> Thanks for your address.  The other six names were submitted yesterday
> with a request for an appointment date and time.  I will pass yours on
> tomorrow and at the same time, will ask for a confirmation of a date & time.
>
>
>
> Over the years and nearly twenty visits to regional MPs & MPPs, there
> have often been non-constituent attendees at meetings with various
> representatives.  As we haven't been explicitly told otherwise, let's
> assume that you are welcome to attend unless notified to the contrary.
>
>
>
> With thanks,
>
> Sharon
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Corliss Olson <cpolson11 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have been following this discussion, & have indicated that I am also
> interested in attending this meeting with Ms. Chagger if I am available at
> the time. My address is 24 - 74 Autumn Ridge Trail, Kitchener. I am in
> Kitchener South-Hespler.
>
> Did I miss an email that said specifically that we are not welcome/allowed
> to attend if we are not in the riding? I did see the request for addresses,
> which struck me as perfectly reasonable to identify constituents coming
> with concerns. (And I took the request for a Waterloo address as a subtle
> hint, &/or a mechanism to "screen" for actual constituents/voters in the
> riding.)
>
> I think that, as a Cabinet Minister, there is greater scope for attendees
> -- although I think any of us visiting any MP should also be perfectly
> acceptable. I do not feel nor do I see any hint of intimidation. And, even
> if there were, why wouldn't we just show up? If we are too many for the
> room, of course some of us would be excluded.
>
> I think the key points have to do with respectful presentation of our
> concerns. And it's not a bad idea to spell out how this is good for the
> governing party.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Corliss
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 9:04 AM, STUART CHANDLER <stuchandler43 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I appreciate Evans desire to move forward and prepare for the meeting by
> discussing points relevant to ‎ER & PR.  And also Dave Arthur's
> observations about a Cabinet Minister having greater responsibilities to
> all Canadians as well as his previous experience with Bardish's
> defensiveness.
>
>
>
> I regret my role in us possibly getting sidetracked about issues like
> whether ‎I should have felt intimidated or fears that the debate was
> becoming too negative.
>
>
>
> It is certain that those who oppose PR are happiest if they believe we are
> divided against‎ one another.
>
>
>
> I can appreciate also that none of you know me very well, and may see my
> emotional responses as a concern. Those who do know me well have commended
> me for the respectful & caring way that I deal with others.
>
>
>
> My riding is Kitchener-Conestoga, so "my representative" in Parliament is
> a member of a party that presently does not represent my main values‎. So I
> am saddened and disappointed by the news that a neighbouring Liberal riding
> office would be less than welcoming - especially after campaigning on "Real
> Change", and promising to represent all Canadians & be open to hearing all
> perspectives.
>
>
>
> My point is: The relevance this has to PR is that the Liberals have been
> trying to promote the idea that, with them in power, PR is not necessary,
> since they will be so good at representing all Canadians. So I see this
> screening issue as further proof (proof that Bardish has provided) that PR
> is really needed (and that another promise has been broken).
>
>
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
>
>
> In peace.
>
>
>
> Stu
>
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
>
> *From: *Evan Rosamond
>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, November 21, 2017 12:26 AM
>
> *To: *fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>
> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardish
>
>
>
> Hey Waterloonians,
>
> It's a relief that you seem to have decided not to be intimidated. Since I
> live in Kitchener, it seems I've been uninvited to Ms Chaggar's  gathering.
>
> When you get to Bardish's office have your points all ready. Here's a
> sample of stuff you might want to talk about:
>
>    - As far as we can tell from polls and our own door-knocking campaign,
>    approximately 2/3 of the voters want the government to keep Trudeau's
>    promise of 2015.
>    - The main reason for all this is fairness. As much as possible we
>    want a system fair to parties (number of seats proportional to a party's
>    actual support), fair to candidates (no need for strategic voting), and
>    fair to voters (nearly all votes should help some candidate get elected).
>    - There is still time to get PR installed for the 2019 election, but
>    the government will have to reverse their reversal soon.
>    - However, there is no longer enough time to redraw the election map.
>    This means that MMP and all its variations can't be considered if we want a
>    fair election in 2019. That leaves only a 2-level open list system or one
>    of the many variants of STV.
>    - Any sort of PR will cost the Liberals some seats, based on 2015
>    results. but it would give them more seats based on 2011 results. But since
>    there will be minority governments nearly all the time, the Liberals could
>    find themselves on the government side more or less perpetually, but they
>    will have to share it.
>    - PR will also give all national parties some MPs from all parts of
>    Canada.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Evan Rosamond
>
>
> On 11/20/2017 5:04 PM, Dave Arthur wrote:
>
> However, Bardish is a cabinet minister and isn’t she, as a member of the
> cabinet with responsibilities for Small Business and Tourism and Government
> House Leader, responsible to all Canadians, not just her own
> constituents????
>
> May I add that we must meet with her in a positive manner in any case.
>
> In my two meetings with her she becomes defensive quickly and can demean
> those who don’t agree with her or with the Trudeau government.
>
> However, it is our job to be ready for this and to have solid,
> well-prepared points to counter this.
>
> Dave A
>
>
>
> *From:* Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 1:34 PM
>
> *To:* FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>
> *Subject:* Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardish
>
>
>
> Hi Anita,
>
>
>
> Thanks for that info. Very useful. :)
>
>
>
> SJM
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 12:59 PM Anita Nickerson <anitann88 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi folks. I'm only partially following this discussion.. but if it's that
> Bardish's office wants the names and addresses of all attendees, so that
> they will only allow people who live in the riding to attend, in organizing
> MP visits with Liberals across the country in the past 1-2 years, that's
> pretty common practice for the assistant to require that. Sometimes you can
> give them a few names and addresses and then kinda add other people in who
> just show up with you. But they don't want to deal with non-constituents.
>
>
>
> Anita
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Mary Jackes <mkj at bell.net> wrote:
>
> Yes, indeed.  Anything other than a polite approach to a politician is
> completely counter-productive.  Perhaps simply asking for clarification?
> That could present the opportunity to say that we find a requirement of
> details on the visiting group unprecedented.
>
> Based on 13 years of association with Fair Vote and other groups here in
> Waterloo, plus years in Alberta, I would say such a request is
> unprecedented.  And it's for that reason that I find asking for names and
> addresses odd.  Definitely "intimidation" comes in different forms in
> different countries (I've worked in several where intimidation could mean
> really bad things - for me up to and including a wall and a sub-machine gun
> in one country and being chased by armed goons through the night in
> another).  But in Canadian terms.......... My reaction to Stu's email was
> that "intimidating" was a reasonable word for him to have used, in the
> sense of inducing anxiety.
>
> Mary.
>
>
>
> On 11/20/2017 10:16 AM, Stephanie Janzen-Martin wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the responses. I am all in favour of pushing MPs
> (respectfully), on policy issues. My only concern with how this email
> thread was going was that it seemed to be veering into territory that
> seemed unnecessarily harsh and negative - if we see our MP as treating
> people as second class citizens and intimidation etc, those are big claims,
> and I hesitate to throw them around lightly. (I've lived places where that
> is a real threat, and that kind of stuff actually does happen, and it looks
> very different from this - trust me! :)) Not that there isn't maybe a way
> that Bardish could have handled this better, but jumping to intimidation
> just seems unrealistic to me - especially since, as far I can tell, nobody
> has even asked her why she wanted the info. Feels like a lot of negative
> speculation that is very thin on facts. :)
>
>
>
> Why would we confront Bardish (even if it is done politely) and tell her
> that some people didn't like her request, and are accusing her of
> intimidation, when we haven't even bothered to ask her why she asked for
> the info in the first place? Shouldn't we learn more first?
>
>
>
> Let's have a great chat with Bardish about PR and policy, and be smart and
> clear-headed about it. Let's not jump to falsely positive conclusions
> (overly naive), but let's also not jump to falsely negative conclusions
> (overly cynical).
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> SJM
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:59 AM STUART CHANDLER <stuchandler43 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Stephanie‎ (and all)
>
>
>
> I, for one, certainly value your viewpoint. It's good to know you've had a
> positive experience working with Bardish's office.
>
>
>
> Personally, I always approach life from the perspective of "Expect the
> Best", so, I want there to be no misunderstanding of my intent. I agree
> 100% that we should approach EVERY meeting with ANY person or group from
> that positive perspective.
>
>
>
> However, I believe it is wise to consider all factors before such a
> meeting, so as not to be blind-sided by something that, in retrospect we
> should have seen coming. And we are left standing with mouths agape, not
> knowing what say in response. I also believe it is possible to say
> challenging things ‎in very respectful ways.
>
>
>
> In my opinion, the best way to approach this would be to respectfully
> advise her office of how the email is being received by some people, and to
> add the assurance that we imagine that reaction was not intended.
>
>
>
> I have identified 3 reactions: 1) surprise and concern over the
> introduction of a new practice in the visit to the MP's office. ‎2) the
> feeling of intimidation generated. 3) the feeling of possible exclusion (or
> being considered 2nd-class) if a prospective visitor lives in a different
> riding.
>
>
>
> As we are a group that is focused on the promotion of increased Democracy,
> I suggest that before we passively accept a new practice by an MP, we
> consider if it is likely to advance the cause of Democracy (and access to
> MPs) or more likely to have the opposite effect. ‎To me, this seems to have
> the opposite effect. And an MP should be respectfully advised.
>
>
>
> Sincerely.
>
>
>
> Stu.
>
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
>
> *From: *Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>
> *Sent: *Monday, November 20, 2017 9:00 AM
>
> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>
> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardisheach meeting ‎
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I'll add my thoughts in here, if you don't mind. I am not a particular fan
> of the liberals (I'm NDP/Green) - but I have had several issues where I
> have been working with Bardish's office (here and Ottawa) for the last year
> or so. She and her staff have been extremely polite, positive and helpful,
> while working with me on big questions, despite there being no immediate
> fix available. (On another issue, they worked very hard with me over
> several weeks and found an immediate solution, which was great!)
>
>
>
> Maybe she really is trying to secretly intimidate the opposition by
> getting logistical info, or maybe this is a simple misunderstanding that is
> being escalated every time someone else responds in the email thread. If
> so, I am sure that any meeting we might get with her in this issue will be
> compromised if we go in assuming the worst. How can we expect to work for
> positive change if we are so convinced of such negative things about her,
> based on so little info?  If that is how the meeting is going to be
> started, then I'd rather not be a part of it, since I already have a great
> working relationship with her and her staff, and I don't want to jeopardize
> it with these negative assumptions.
>
>
>
> All I'm saying is that I would give the benefit of the doubt and get more
> info before assuming intimidation... :)
>
>
>
> Hope that helps,
>
>
>
> SJM
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 1:09 PM Mary Jackes <mkj at bell.net> wrote:
>
> I must say that this leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouth.  It feels
> like intimidation.
>
> Best,
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> On 11/18/2017 9:21 AM, STUART CHANDLER wrote:
>
> Thanks Sharon for passing the Bardish email along.
>
>
>
> Holy crap!!  More proof that Bardish has a HUGE amount of nerve, and
> indulges in covert/overt intimidation (although I'm sure she would cleverly
> try to sell it as "genuine interest in her constituants". ‎ I have no doubt
> that she has a pretty clear sense of the effect that "interest" (in having
> the names and addresses of those interested in visiting her office -
> particularly if coming with intent to complain or challenge) would have on
> anyone so inclined.
>
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
>
> *From: *Sharon Sommerville
>
> *Sent: *Friday, November 17, 2017 8:08 PM
>
> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>
> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Meeting with Bardish
>
>
>
> Hi Cathe,
>
>
>
> That would be great, thank you!  Will
>
>
>
> Here is th email that I rec'd today from Bardish's constituency assistant:
>
>
>
> Hi Sharon,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your email and for your call the other day, could you please
> let me know some info about who would like to meet? Could you please also
> provide their Waterloo addresses for our records?
>
>
>
> Thanks and I hope you’re having a great day.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> In my experience, it is unheard of to screen constituents for a meeting
> with a MP.  Let me know if you want to provide Bardish's office with your
> address.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sharon
>
>
>
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>
> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
> Find me at: Menno Adventures... https://sustainabledevelopmentresource
> s.wordpress.com     Director of Program Development - www.smcegypt.org
>
>
>
>
>
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> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
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> s.wordpress.com     Director of Program Development - www.smcegypt.org
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