[fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting

Thu Oct 31 17:50:03 EDT 2019

HI Ellen! and Jim.

Hope you're having a great time. We're sharing the rain, apparently.

Corliss

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 5:22 PM Ellen Papenburg <sagittaep at gmail.com> wrote:

> Good for you David.  It's a ridiculous archaic system!
>
> Applauding you from Iceland. No northern lights,  raindrops instead. But
> lots of other things to see.
>
> Ellen
>
> (via my android phone,  typos may occur)
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 20:50 Dave Arthur, <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
>
>> Hepburn’s op-ed today in The Star and The Record is almost exactly the
>> same crap he wrote two years ago when Justin shut down the process.
>>
>> I just sent the same letter I sent then to both The Star and The Record.
>> Here it is.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hepburn’s Arguments Ill-Conceived
>>
>> Bob Hepburn says changing our voting system is a bad idea.  But 88% of
>> the witnesses and briefs submitted by Canadians who have studied the issue
>> say we need proportional representation, the system used by 90% of other
>> developed democracies in the world.  What do those countries know that
>> Hepburn doesn’t?  PR countries typically have more stable, longer lasting
>> governments, better representation for all citizens, more cooperation and
>> consensus, less partisan bitterness, longer range planning, less policy
>> lurch, better voter turnouts, and sincere rather than strategic voting.
>> Systems using multi-member or larger ridings with additional MPs give
>> constituents more, not less contact with representatives.  Candidate lists
>> adding proportional MPs can be open and ranked by voters adding more
>> democracy, not less.  Canada is almost alone with its unfair version of
>> democracy. Friends in countries with PR can’t believe we have stayed with a
>> system where votes are not equal and too many do not count toward
>> representation.
>>
>> David Arthur
>>
>> 32 Springdale Drive
>>
>> Kitchener, Ontario N2K1P9
>>
>> arthurd23 at bell.net
>>
>> 519-579-3097
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Stephanie Janzen-Martin <stephanie at janzenmartin.net>
>> *Sent: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:39 AM
>> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree that PR is not partisan - but I can also see how people who don't
>> want change might use that to shut down discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Discussions I've had with someone I know who works in a Liberal office on
>> the Hill have been frustrating, to say the least. Basically "voting to
>> avoid your worst case outcome should be good enough for you. Nobody else is
>> trying to change the system, so why are you?"
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect that he sees it as a highly partisan issue ie some parties want
>> change and others don't and Greens would benefit from change so that's why
>> they want it etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> I maintain a sliver of hope (from conversations with Bardish on this and
>> other topics), that she could, eventually, be convinced to support PR - on
>> the premise that all votes should count equally, and that she should have
>> to earn votes (by being first choice, instead of by creating fear of a
>> worse choice), and that cooperation with other parties (eg NDP and Green)
>> is a positive for democracy.
>>
>>
>>
>> SJM
>>
>> ...................................
>>
>> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>>
>> Menno Adventures: sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
>>
>> Support Independent School Funding:
>> https://www.change.org/p/doug-ford-end-discriminatory-funding-for-catholic-public-private-schools-in-ontario
>>
>>
>> Find me on LinkedIn.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 08:14, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
>>
>> I still don’t see that electoral reform is in any way partisan.
>>
>> It’s about our democracy.
>>
>> Is that off-limits with our elected MPs?
>>
>> Did everyone see Bob Hepburn’s op-ed in today’s Record/
>>
>>
>> https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/9670223-six-reasons-to-just-say-no-to-electoral-reform/
>>
>> All six reasons to say no to ER are BS.
>>
>> Anyone want to respond?
>>
>> Dave A
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:00 PM
>> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting
>>
>>
>>
>> Catherine Fife said “partisan topics” couldn’t be discussed in her
>> constituency office in the meeting that Jonathon and Don Fraser also
>> attended a few months ago. You were at the only meeting I’ve attended with
>> Bardish. You and I talked outside her outer door while we waited.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Sharon Sommerville <
>> sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Hi Cathe,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm interested in the context of Bardish's comments about not discussing
>> partisan politics in their constituency office.  Can you give more details?
>>
>>
>>
>> Three of us: Terry, Anita and myself met with Bardish to talk about
>> Citizens' Assemblies prior to the election.  Not sure if addressing
>> Citizens' Assemblies is partisan.  Addressing LPC issues in the
>> constituency office would be partisan.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 4:41 PM Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Re: “Fair Vote and PR are (allegedly) non-partisan”: Hey, Dave, You are
>> delegated to find nests of Conservatives and Liberals and put the statement
>> to them. Wear a body cam.  Show us the video at the November meeting.
>> Somebody should bring popcorn. Cathe Campbell
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> But Fairvote and electoral reform are not partisan. Correct?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 29, 2019 4:27 PM
>> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m always on the side of activism. Whenever questions are posed to our
>> group. “Shall we do X?”, my answer will always be,  “Yes!.” So yes to what
>> Peter wrote, and yes to delegating to Anita the herding, corralling and
>> sending off of pro-PR residents to meet with our newly re-elected and
>> elected MPs outside their constituency offices. Catherine Fife and I recall
>> Bardish Chagger telling our Fair Vote they couldn’t discuss partisan
>> politics inside their constituency office. Hence, we follow the rules of
>> engagement and meet on neutral territory.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2019, at 10:11 PM, Cathy Scott <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Hi, Everyone
>>
>> Just a reminder that this Wednesday, Oct. 30,  is the last of the month
>> and we will be meeting at the 'Hub' at 7:00pm, at St. John's church at Duke
>> and Water Streets.
>>
>> Here are some points of discussion:
>>
>>    1. election results (I will bring The Record edition that lists the
>>    results by riding).
>>    2. strategies for getting electoral reform on the Liberal-NDP-Green
>>    agenda
>>
>>
>>    - visits to local Liberal MPs regarding establishing a Citizens'
>>    Assembly
>>    - should we accept Anita's offer to help us find and
>>    coordinate volunteers for these visits or organize them ourselves,
>>    independently of FVC?
>>
>>        3. website update - Jay recently found that our website is down
>>
>>
>>
>> See you then!
>>
>> Cathy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 1:16 PM Cathy Scott <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Sharon and Bob
>>
>> It occurred to me yesterday that this coming Wed. is the last of the
>> month.
>>
>> Some of the agenda might be:
>>
>> - discussing the election results (I saved the Record edition that lists
>> results riding by riding)
>>
>> - planning strategy for getting electoral reform on the Liberal-NDP-Green
>> agenda;  and how they could do it before the next election, if we can show
>> that it should be important to them.
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Let me know if you want me to send out the announcement.
>>
>> Cathyr
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 11:15 AM Sharon Sommerville <
>> sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Bob,
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob, congratulations on moving the Green vote up nearly 4% in
>> Brantford-Brant.  That represents a lot of work & that doesn't include
>> travel time!
>>
>>
>>
>> You usually send out the notice for our monthly meeting.  Are you up to
>> doing that or should Cathy/I send it out?
>>
>>
>>
>> It will be at the Hub.
>>
>>
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> S.
>>
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