[fvc-wat-disc] Bob Hepburn - anti-PR piece in the Star

[Michael O'Brien]

Bob Hepburn is a schill for the Federal Liberal Party.

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 5:39 PM Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:

> Good letter Kevin.
>
> Does the Star say 150 limit?
>
> In the past with the KW Record I’ve gone over a bit and it’s been accepted.
>
> You could try.
>
> Dave A
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
>
> *From: *Kevin Smith <kevedsmith at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 30, 2021 5:19 PM
> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Bob Hepburn - anti-PR piece in the Star
>
>
>
> *Hi folks:*
>
>
>
> *Here's my draft.  194 words.  Do I really need to trim it to 150?  Any
> feedback?*
>
>
>
> *Kevin.*
>
>
>
> *First Past the Post does not protect us*
>
>
>
> To the editor:
>
>
>
> Bob Hepburn argues that Maxime Bernier’s PPC Party shows the folly of
> Proportional Representation.  However, we’ve seen how close we came to
> having Maxime Bernier as Prime Minister under First Past the Post.
>
>
>
> Andrew Sheer beat Maxime Bernier by 50.95% to 49.05% on the final ballot
> of the 2017 leadership vote.  A change of one percentage point could have
> given us our very own Donald Trump-like figure leading that party.
>
>
>
> In 2019, with First Past the Post and as little as 3% more of the vote,
> the Conservatives would be able to win majority government with 100% of the
> power.
>
>
>
> So while PR could give a right-wing demagogue a voice in parliament, as
> every party with sufficient support would have, first-past-the-post could
> have made him Prime Minister with a minority of votes but a majority of
> seats.
>
>
>
> Let’s face it.  Any party with 5% support stands a chance of winning
> seats in parliament in any system. With Proportional Representation, we
> have greater party choice, better representation, and parties that need to
> work together, and have less incentive to pull the plug and have elections
> like the one we just had.  Far from folly, Bob.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 4:31 PM Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
>
> Thank you Anita. This is a very important topic.
>
> The linked article that Anita included is very much worth reading.
>
> We need to make the case that the results of our election in FPTP with low
> voter turnout, strategic voting, and all the covid polarization tinged with
> the populism that seems to be happening in many countries does not forecast
> what would happen with PR.
>
> In fact, PR would likely improve voter turnout, eliminate strategic
> voting, and reduce the effects of polarization and populism.
>
> Much of that would result from the increased cooperation of parties and a
> reduced toxic environment in our parliament.
>
> The Green vote would certainly increase to its past performance of more
> than the 5% threshold and mean considerably more than 2 seats.
>
> The PPC vote would very likely decrease and not meet the 5% threshold in
> addition to not likely electing anyone as was the case this time.
>
> One of the points I always make to people concerned about the fringe and
> single issue parties gaining influence is that in the last election, we had
> 14 such parties who together got less than 1% of the votes.
>
> We still have a job to do to counter the effect of the PPC.
>
> That could certainly include a letter to the Star.
>
> Dave A
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
>
> *From: *Anita Nickerson <anitann88 at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Thursday, September 30, 2021 1:01 PM
> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Bob Hepburn - anti-PR piece in the Star
>
>
>
> Please write to the Star!
>
> Yes, the PPC is costing us supporters.
>
>
>
> People are seeing those charts of 17-21 seats everywhere. It is costing us
> our own supporters - the many soft supporters, not the core long time
> people like you - and "the public". There is no doubt. I see it everywhere.
>
> I'm not really convinced that valiantly arguing that the PPC getting 21
> seats because they "deserve" it, that's "better democracy", when they were
> basically a one-issue party this election for people who think blocking
> hospitals is great, is a winner with the people we need to convince. We may
> be democratically and morally and technically correct, but we're only
> convincing ourselves by focusing on that.
>
> There is no great argument that can defeat an EMOTIONAL knee-jerk fear
> people have of "extremists in Parliament." Logic does not overcome emotion.
> We have been thoroughly defeated on that field before.
>
>
> *Nevertheless, do try to give people something else to think about and
> focus on! *
> Like yes, remind people that Bernier sat in cabinet and came with 1.7% of
> winning the Con leadership.
>
>
>
> Then these folks who are terrified of having a few isolated PPC in a
> corner of Parliament could have a Bernier running the country on 33% of the
> vote. That's a realistic fear - that we can address now with electoral
> reform now - or wait until it's staring us in the face, at which point it
> becomes much more difficult.
>
> A PR system for Canada WOULD NOT deliver the PPC 17 or 21 seats. Here is
> the reality:
>
> https://www.fairvote.ca/2021/09/22/simulationssmallparties/
>
>
>
> Milder numbers may take a dent of the fear, but won't remove it. For many
> people one PPC seat is too many and makes them think they'd rather stick
> with "the devil they know".
>
>
>
> The best tactic is likely to focus on the glaring flaws and consequences
> of our FPTP system for everyone.
>
>
>
> $600,000,000 early elections.
>
>
>
> Governments with 32.6% support who try to cooperate with others as little
> as humanly possible, when what we need are parties to cooperate to tackle
> issues that can only be solved by "all hands on deck" like climate change
> action.
>
>
>
> 25/25 seats in the City of Toronto going Lib and 14/14 in SK going Con -
> leaving NO VOICE for those with any other values.
>
>
>
> The vast majority who again elected nobody and the massive disengagement
> that is causing as voter turnout plummeted to 59%.
>
>
>
> Are we going to let fear of a handful of purple seats frighten us from
> solving those very big problems?
>
>
>
> *PLEASE WRITE TO THE STAR. So they see a LOT of people pushing back. *Much
> better than talking to each other on this list!
>
>
>
> Anita
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 7:08 AM stuchandler43 <stuchandler43 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> It doesn't take  a genius to see through Bob Hepburn's bombastic blather
> about how scary PR is. It is truly unfortunate that he uses his position of
> "journalist" as a bully pulpit to spread his stupidity with such perceived
> authority.
>
> His piece contains the information necessary to refute his useless fear of
> Max Bernier and the PPC, who he claims would create havic with the 25 seats
> they may have gained under PR.  25 seats out of 338 would only be of
> influence if the Conservatives got about 160 seats, and needed the PPC to
> pass legislation.  With all the polls of public opinion in Canada
> indicating that Canadians are overwhelmingly progressive politically, there
> is zero likelihood of that happening under PR. But it could happen under
> FPTP (!!!!!), which could allow the CPC to "win" enough seats with 30% of
> the votes (let's say) to gain a minority close enough to half that the few
> seats Bernier *might *get (in this hypothetical case) could allow them to
> form a coalition government capable of passing legislation.
>
> So, once again, PR proves it's better than FPTP since such a scenario is *much
> *less likely to happen with a PR Electoral system.
>
> Moreover, under FPTP, Justin has just been showing us how easy it is for
> his minority Liberal party to ignore most of what the NDP wants because
> he's been pretty sure the NDP will prop the Liberals up rather than risk
> forcing an election that might allow the Conservatives to gain power.
> (Only Justin was stupid enough to risk that fate!!)
>
> Ain't politics Fun?
>
>
>
> Cheerio
>
> Stu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
>
> From: Kevin Smith <kevedsmith at gmail.com>
>
> Date: 2021-09-30 2:13 a.m. (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>
> Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] Bob Hepburn - anti-PR piece in the Star
>
>
>
> Things have gotten quiet apparently from the progressives calling for PR,,
> since the PPC would have been the main benefactor of it in this last
> election.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2021/09/29/max-bernier-and-the-folly-of-electoral-reform.html
>
>
>
> Kevin.
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe:
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Proportional representation delivers more of what YOU voted for!*
>
> Sign the Declaration: www.fairvote.ca/declaration
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe:
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe:
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.thinkers.org/pipermail/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org/attachments/20211001/c5d8b878/attachment.htm>