[fvc-wat-disc] Bob Hepburn - anti-PR piece in the Star

[Dave Arthur]

Hi Anita
Very good message. 
I was going to bring this topic up last night but didn’t.
In your linked article, the chart of results with MMP is missing.
Dave A

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Anita Nickerson
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 1:01 PM
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Bob Hepburn - anti-PR piece in the Star

Please write to the Star! 

Yes, the PPC is costing us supporters. 

People are seeing those charts of 17-21 seats everywhere. It is costing us our own supporters - the many soft supporters, not the core long time people like you - and "the public". There is no doubt. I see it everywhere. 

I'm not really convinced that valiantly arguing that the PPC getting 21 seats because they "deserve" it, that's "better democracy", when they were basically a one-issue party this election for people who think blocking hospitals is great, is a winner with the people we need to convince. We may be democratically and morally and technically correct, but we're only convincing ourselves by focusing on that. 

There is no great argument that can defeat an EMOTIONAL knee-jerk fear people have of "extremists in Parliament." Logic does not overcome emotion. We have been thoroughly defeated on that field before.

Nevertheless, do try to give people something else to think about and focus on! 

Like yes, remind people that Bernier sat in cabinet and came with 1.7% of winning the Con leadership. 

Then these folks who are terrified of having a few isolated PPC in a corner of Parliament could have a Bernier running the country on 33% of the vote. That's a realistic fear - that we can address now with electoral reform now - or wait until it's staring us in the face, at which point it becomes much more difficult.

A PR system for Canada WOULD NOT deliver the PPC 17 or 21 seats. Here is the reality:

https://www.fairvote.ca/2021/09/22/simulationssmallparties/

Milder numbers may take a dent of the fear, but won't remove it. For many people one PPC seat is too many and makes them think they'd rather stick with "the devil they know".

The best tactic is likely to focus on the glaring flaws and consequences of our FPTP system for everyone. 

$600,000,000 early elections. 

Governments with 32.6% support who try to cooperate with others as little as humanly possible, when what we need are parties to cooperate to tackle issues that can only be solved by "all hands on deck" like climate change action. 

25/25 seats in the City of Toronto going Lib and 14/14 in SK going Con - leaving NO VOICE for those with any other values. 

The vast majority who again elected nobody and the massive disengagement that is causing as voter turnout plummeted to 59%. 

Are we going to let fear of a handful of purple seats frighten us from solving those very big problems?

PLEASE WRITE TO THE STAR. So they see a LOT of people pushing back. Much better than talking to each other on this list!

Anita


On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 7:08 AM stuchandler43 <stuchandler43 at gmail.com> wrote:
It doesn't take  a genius to see through Bob Hepburn's bombastic blather about how scary PR is. It is truly unfortunate that he uses his position of "journalist" as a bully pulpit to spread his stupidity with such perceived authority. 
His piece contains the information necessary to refute his useless fear of Max Bernier and the PPC, who he claims would create havic with the 25 seats they may have gained under PR.  25 seats out of 338 would only be of influence if the Conservatives got about 160 seats, and needed the PPC to pass legislation.  With all the polls of public opinion in Canada indicating that Canadians are overwhelmingly progressive politically, there is zero likelihood of that happening under PR. But it could happen under FPTP (!!!!!), which could allow the CPC to "win" enough seats with 30% of the votes (let's say) to gain a minority close enough to half that the few seats Bernier might get (in this hypothetical case) could allow them to form a coalition government capable of passing legislation. 
So, once again, PR proves it's better than FPTP since such a scenario is much less likely to happen with a PR Electoral system.
Moreover, under FPTP, Justin has just been showing us how easy it is for his minority Liberal party to ignore most of what the NDP wants because he's been pretty sure the NDP will prop the Liberals up rather than risk forcing an election that might allow the Conservatives to gain power.  (Only Justin was stupid enough to risk that fate!!)
Ain't politics Fun?

Cheerio 
Stu



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Kevin Smith <kevedsmith at gmail.com> 
Date: 2021-09-30 2:13 a.m. (GMT-05:00) 
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org> 
Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] Bob Hepburn - anti-PR piece in the Star 

Things have gotten quiet apparently from the progressives calling for PR,, since the PPC would have been the main benefactor of it in this last election.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2021/09/29/max-bernier-and-the-folly-of-electoral-reform.html

Kevin.
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