<html><head></head><body lang="en-US" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: initial;"> <div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">Good points all !</span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">Lipstick on a pig, indeed !</span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">Perhaps some of the cries of "crap" are from those having trouble wading through all the verbal diarrhea used to justify the design of a survey loaded with leading questions plus their skewed interpretation of the results. </span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">A sickening use of $350,000</span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">A DISSERVICE to Canadians ! </span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">Plus the media not doing their job. </span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">Who is teaching the journalists to be lap-dogs to gov't and to corporations (who would find it easier to lobby ONE party, with absolute power, than the likely PR result)</span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">Was it "The Art of the Con", or "The Art of the Deal"? </span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">See ya tonight.!</span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;"><br></span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;">Stu </span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;"><br></span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; line-height: initial;"><br></span></div> <div style="font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.</div> <table width="100%" style="background-color:white;border-spacing:0px;"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="font-size: initial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; font-family: Tahoma, 'BB Alpha Sans', 'Slate Pro'; font-size: 10pt;"> <div><b>From: </b>Anita Nickerson</div><div><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, January 25, 2017 1:47 AM</div><div><b>To: </b>FVC Waterloo Region Discussion</div><div><b>Reply To: </b>FVC Waterloo Region Discussion</div><div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Results of the mydemocracy.ca survey are available</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(186, 188, 209); border-top-width: 1pt; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div><br><div id="_originalContent" style=""><div dir="ltr">They dismissed all the people who showed up at the ERRE meetings as an unrepresentative special interest group recruited by FVC, and way too few people to conclude anything from. <div><br></div><div>Now they have this survey which I know is flawed but:<br><br>If it's 300,000 who filled it out, that's about 100x the number of people FVC could get to fill something. So, whoever filled this thing out, they can't say it was the special interest group. <br><br>Of course they can spin anything to justify keeping the status quo if that's what they want to do. But Canadians keep making it harder :)</div><div><br></div><div>Anita</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 1:09 AM, Bob Jonkman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bjonkman@sobac.com" target="_blank">bjonkman@sobac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Lipstick on a pig.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://mydemocracy.ca" target="_blank">mydemocracy.ca</a> was a flawed survey: it allowed a self-selected set of respondents; it had no controls for respondents answering multiple times; it had no controls for geographic location of respondents; it asked leading, ambiguous questions with no clear answers. The response rate was under 1% of Canadians (or maybe under 2% of eligible voters). There was absolutely no scientific validity to this survey, and so any conclusions drawn are completely invalid, even if they do happen to grasp at a favourable straw. <br>
<br>
I would pay attention to how the media is spinning this: "Canadians are happy with their democracy, no electoral reform needed."<br>
<br>
The real tragedy is that $350,000 was wasted on this, compared to the $250,000 ERRE budget.<br>
<br>
This Liberal government will take this as permission to break another election promise.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
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--Bob <br></font></span><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On January 24, 2017 10:58:09 PM EST, Anita Nickerson <<a href="mailto:anitann88@gmail.com" target="_blank">anitann88@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">So far now Jenn and I are a fan club of two in a sea of people calling the results crap.<br><br>I know the survey was bad - I wrote the guide to navigate the awful questions. <br><div><br></div><div>But what's crap right now is the way the media is spinning it. It reminds me of the BC STV referendum - 58% said yes but STV was "rejected". Really?<br><br>"Survey says Canadians love our system!" says the media! <br><br>They weren't even ASKED about our system. If they were asked how many like FPTP I'm sure the usual 30-40% would say "great stuff". </div><div><br></div><div>What Canadians love - according to <a href="http://mydemocracy.ca" target="_blank">mydemocracy.ca</a> which probably 300,000 people - is <b>MULTI-PARTY governments that have to make legislation together. </b>Seriously, that's what it says. About four questions all reinforcing that. <br><br>People also said they want to express their preferences even if it takes longer for ballots to be counted and they want more diversity of views in Parliament. <br><br>Even that awful question - "do you want a few big parties or many small parties" - what a stupid choice which reminds me of "do you want stability or a big zoo of wingdings" - 41% of people said they want "many small parties." I couldn't imagine more than 20% saying that. That 41% said "many small parties" is not a stat I'd make a poster of but I think it's significant. <br><br>My own opinion is, the survey was designed with skewed questions probably so the gov't could say "no consensus" and "look, people don't want change". It came back loud and clear that people think we can do better than 39% majorities. <br><br>Anita</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 9:13 PM, Jennifer Ross <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:2jennross@gmail.com" target="_blank">2jennross@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>I don't know what TL:DR means, but I did read the very clear and unequivocal call for coalition governments--three different questions, all three were in the 70% range for it. I did read where people don't really care how long it takes to count the ballots as long as they have choice on the ballots. I read a bunch of things that were slightly one way or the other, but for the most part, I thought it was remarkably in our favour!<br><br></div>I frankly don't understand why people are crapping on it.<br><br></div>Tomorrow will be a great discussion night!<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="m_-894674393172494728h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bob Jonkman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bjonkman@sobac.com" target="_blank">bjonkman@sobac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
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The results of the <a href="http://mydemocracy.ca" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mydemocracy.ca</a> survey have been published:<br>
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<a href="https://www.canada.ca/en/campaign/electoral-reform/learn-about-canadian-federal-electoral-reform/mydemocracyca-online-digital-consultation-engagement-platform.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.canada.ca/en/campa<wbr>ign/electoral-reform/learn-abo<wbr>ut-canadian-federal-electoral-<wbr>reform/mydemocracyca-online-<wbr>digital-consultation-engagemen<wbr>t-platform.html</a><br>
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TL;DR: No electoral reform for us.<br>
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- --Bob.<br>
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- --<br>
Bob Jonkman <<a href="mailto:bjonkman@sobac.com" target="_blank">bjonkman@sobac.com</a>> Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-519-635-9413" value="+15196359413" target="_blank">+1-519-635-9413</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><span class="m_-894674393172494728HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br></font><div class="m_-894674393172494728m_-266306636375972823gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><font color="#888888"></font><div dir="ltr"><font color="#888888"></font><div><font color="#888888"></font><div dir="ltr"><font color="#888888"></font><div><font color="#888888"></font><div dir="ltr"><font color="#888888"></font><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:10px;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal"><font color="#888888"><span><font color="#888888"><font size="1"><span style="font-family:tahoma,new york,times,serif"><span style="line-height:10.909090995788574px">No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power </span></span></font><font size="1"><span style="font-family:tahoma,new york,times,serif"><span style="line-height:10.909090995788574px">in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister. </span></span></font></font></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<p style="margin-top:2.5em;margin-bottom:1em;border-bottom:1px solid #000"></p><pre class="m_-894674393172494728k9mail"><hr><br>This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list<br>Post a message: <a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.<wbr>thinkers.org</a><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">http://listserv.thinkers.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_<wbr>listserv.thinkers.org</a><br></pre></blockquote></div><br>
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