<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple style='line-height:initial'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi Stu<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So based on your argument, all votes must elect the winner or none are of any value.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The fact is that only one candidate can be elected. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Why bother to have more than one political party and more than one candidate?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Or as George Washington proposed: no political parties.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Maybe the “make every vote count" phrase is the ‘wrong choice’?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Maybe our way of selecting our political leaders by votes is all wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is there another way? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is it possible to have consensus when thousands of people are selecting a representative?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Based on voter intentions and the results in the last election, more people are opposed to ‘first past the post’ than those who support it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Trudeau and the Liberals have chosen to ignore this for their own purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I'm from the older generation too. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There are many of ‘our generation’ who do not vote because they never did or they have become too cynical.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces@listserv.thinkers.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>STUART CHANDLER<br><b>Sent:</b> February-27-17 10:46 PM<br><b>To:</b> John Cooper; 'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Total ballots ...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi John. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I'm not sure about others, but I choose to use the term "wasted vote" for a deliberate purpose. I use it for any potential shocking effect it might have on the reader/listener, and I always follow it with brackets stating something like: () to explain what I mean by "wasted vote". <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I've heard others advance the theory that no vote is wasted, but I find I'm not interested in pursuing that theory as I worry that the opponents of PR will simply use it as a way to justify their satisfaction with the status quo. I would not want to feed their addiction to FPTP.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My vote in 2015 was one of the more than 9 Million "wasted votes", so I am taking it personally that the person I chose to support was beaten by someone I was opposed to, so I am effectively without representation in Parliament (at least from my riding - and it appears from most other ridings as well, particularly since all the Liberal MPs have betrayed those of us who were voting for the concept of electoral reform). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I'm from the older generation, many of whom will continue to exercise the civic responsibility to vote, even if my choice doesn't win. But many others are discouraged from voting because they do not expect their vote will actually affect the outcome. Consequently, I believe we need to stick with identifying such votes as wasted, in order to advance our cause "to make every vote count". (Otherwise that phrase is pointless.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sincerely. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Stu Chandler. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%;margin-left:36.0pt;background:white;border-spacing:0px'><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;font-size:initial;text-align:initial'><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>John Cooper<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Sent: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Monday, February 27, 2017 5:55 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>To: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Reply To: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>FVC Waterloo Region Discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Subject: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Total ballots ...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id="_originalContent"><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>in a democracy (whatever that is) , no vote is a ‘wasted vote’. Everyone who meets the criteria has a right – and a duty as a citizen - to vote.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It’s only wasted if you did not vote according to your principles and values for the person or party who shares those with you or you did not vote at all.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There’s a difference between a ‘wasted vote’ and a ‘principled vote’.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The real issue is whether the person elected receives more than a simple plurality of votes over the other candidates.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is that democracy?</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The people who voted for the ‘winners’ and are not happy with the decisions of those ‘winners’ after they gained power – those are wasted votes</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>because you did not vote according to your principles. You got ‘sucked in’ by the promises of liars.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces@listserv.thinkers.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eleanor Grant<br><b>Sent:</b> February-27-17 5:08 PM<br><b>To:</b> fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [fvc-wat-disc] Total ballots ...</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>Hi Fair Voters - <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>These are the numbers that Jenn found for me on Feb 9.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Results of 2015 Oct 19 election:</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>35,749,600 - Population of Canada</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>25,638,379 - Eligible Voters</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>17,559,353 - Ballots cast</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 8,214,532 - Effective votes</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 9,106,926 - "Wasted" votes, elected no one.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I noticed the numbers don't add up;</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>237,895 votes are unaccounted for.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Would there be that many spoiled ballots across the country?</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>But even if all of these were added to the effective votes, they're still far outnumbered by the votes which elected no one. That's scandalous.</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Eleanor </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=EN-US><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>