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<p>Yes, indeed. Anything other than a polite approach to a
politician is completely counter-productive. Perhaps simply
asking for clarification? That could present the opportunity to
say that we find a requirement of details on the visiting group
unprecedented.<br>
</p>
<p>Based on 13 years of association with Fair Vote and other groups
here in Waterloo, plus years in Alberta, I would say such a
request is unprecedented. And it's for that reason that I find
asking for names and addresses odd. Definitely "intimidation"
comes in different forms in different countries (I've worked in
several where intimidation could mean really bad things - for me
up to and including a wall and a sub-machine gun in one country
and being chased by armed goons through the night in another).
But in Canadian terms.......... My reaction to Stu's email was
that "intimidating" was a reasonable word for him to have used, in
the sense of inducing anxiety.<br>
</p>
<p>Mary.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/20/2017 10:16 AM, Stephanie
Janzen-Martin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAumYA+GghKyZux2EopY4bEHLq-Cm5Ozwj7i9thKHORYk-3XZg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">Hi all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you for the responses. I am all in favour of pushing
MPs (respectfully), on policy issues. My only concern with how
this email thread was going was that it seemed to be veering
into territory that seemed unnecessarily harsh and negative -
if we see our MP as treating people as second class citizens
and intimidation etc, those are big claims, and I hesitate to
throw them around lightly. (I've lived places where that is a
real threat, and that kind of stuff actually does happen, and
it looks very different from this - trust me! :)) Not that
there isn't maybe a way that Bardish could have handled this
better, but jumping to intimidation just seems unrealistic to
me - especially since, as far I can tell, nobody has even
asked her why she wanted the info. Feels like a lot of
negative speculation that is very thin on facts. :)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Why would we confront Bardish (even if it is done politely)
and tell her that some people didn't like her request, and are
accusing her of intimidation, when we haven't even bothered to
ask her why she asked for the info in the first place?
Shouldn't we learn more first?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let's have a great chat with Bardish about PR and policy,
and be smart and clear-headed about it. Let's not jump to
falsely positive conclusions (overly naive), but let's also
not jump to falsely negative conclusions (overly cynical). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thoughts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SJM</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:59 AM STUART CHANDLER
<<a href="mailto:stuchandler43@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">stuchandler43@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial"
lang="en-US">
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Hi
Stephanie (and all) </div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I,
for one, certainly value your viewpoint. It's good to know
you've had a positive experience working with Bardish's
office. </div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Personally,
I always approach life from the perspective of "Expect the
Best", so, I want there to be no misunderstanding of my
intent. I agree 100% that we should approach EVERY meeting
with ANY person or group from that positive perspective. </div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">However,
I believe it is wise to consider all factors before such a
meeting, so as not to be blind-sided by something that, in
retrospect we should have seen coming. And we are left
standing with mouths agape, not knowing what say in
response. I also believe it is possible to say challenging
things in very respectful ways. </div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">In
my opinion, the best way to approach this would be to
respectfully advise her office of how the email is being
received by some people, and to add the assurance that we
imagine that reaction was not intended.</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I
have identified 3 reactions: 1) surprise and concern over
the introduction of a new practice in the visit to the
MP's office. 2) the feeling of intimidation generated. 3)
the feeling of possible exclusion (or being considered
2nd-class) if a prospective visitor lives in a different
riding. </div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">As
we are a group that is focused on the promotion of
increased Democracy, I suggest that before we passively
accept a new practice by an MP, we consider if it is
likely to advance the cause of Democracy (and access to
MPs) or more likely to have the opposite effect. To me,
this seems to have the opposite effect. And an MP should
be respectfully advised. </div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Sincerely. </div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Stu.
</div>
</div>
<div
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial"
lang="en-US">
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.</div>
</div>
<div
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial"
lang="en-US">
<table style="background-color:white;border-spacing:0px"
width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="2"
style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt
0in 0in;font-family:Tahoma,'BB Alpha Sans','Slate
Pro';font-size:10pt">
<div><b>From: </b>Stephanie Janzen-Martin</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Monday, November 20, 2017 9:00
AM</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<div
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial"
lang="en-US">
<table style="background-color:white;border-spacing:0px"
width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="2"
style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt
0in 0in;font-family:Tahoma,'BB Alpha Sans','Slate
Pro';font-size:10pt">
<div><b>To: </b>FVC Waterloo Region Discussion</div>
<div><b>Reply To: </b>FVC Waterloo Region
Discussion</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<div
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial"
lang="en-US">
<table style="background-color:white;border-spacing:0px"
width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="2"
style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt
0in 0in;font-family:Tahoma,'BB Alpha Sans','Slate
Pro';font-size:10pt">
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Meeting
with Bardisheach meeting </div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<div
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial"
lang="en-US"><br>
<div id="m_-4880881446777834969_originalContent">
<div dir="ltr">Hi all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'll add my thoughts in here, if you don't mind. I
am not a particular fan of the liberals (I'm
NDP/Green) - but I have had several issues where I
have been working with Bardish's office (here and
Ottawa) for the last year or so. She and her staff
have been extremely polite, positive and helpful,
while working with me on big questions, despite there
being no immediate fix available. (On another issue,
they worked very hard with me over several weeks and
found an immediate solution, which was great!)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Maybe she really is trying to secretly intimidate
the opposition by getting logistical info, or maybe
this is a simple misunderstanding that is being
escalated every time someone else responds in the
email thread. If so, I am sure that any meeting we
might get with her in this issue will be compromised
if we go in assuming the worst. How can we expect to
work for positive change if we are so convinced of
such negative things about her, based on so little
info? If that is how the meeting is going to be
started, then I'd rather not be a part of it, since I
already have a great working relationship with her and
her staff, and I don't want to jeopardize it with
these negative assumptions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All I'm saying is that I would give the benefit of
the doubt and get more info before assuming
intimidation... :)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hope that helps,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SJM</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 1:09 PM Mary
Jackes <<a href="mailto:mkj@bell.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mkj@bell.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>I must say that this leaves an unpleasant taste
in the mouth. It feels like intimidation. <br>
</p>
Best,<br>
<br>
Mary</div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><br>
<br>
<div
class="m_-4880881446777834969m_4005109044483004758moz-cite-prefix">On
11/18/2017 9:21 AM, STUART CHANDLER wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Thanks
Sharon for passing the Bardish email along. </div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Holy
crap!! More proof that Bardish has a HUGE
amount of nerve, and indulges in covert/overt
intimidation (although I'm sure she would
cleverly try to sell it as "genuine interest in
her constituants". I have no doubt that she
has a pretty clear sense of the effect that
"interest" (in having the names and addresses of
those interested in visiting her office -
particularly if coming with intent to complain
or challenge) would have on anyone so inclined.
<br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.</div>
<table
style="background-color:white;border-spacing:0px"
width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="2"
style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div>
<div><b>From: </b>Sharon Sommerville</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Friday, November 17,
2017 8:08 PM</div>
<div><b>To: </b>FVC Waterloo Region
Discussion</div>
<div><b>Reply To: </b>FVC Waterloo
Region Discussion</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc]
Meeting with Bardish</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<div
id="m_-4880881446777834969m_4005109044483004758_originalContent">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Cathe,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That would be great, thank you! Will </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is <span
id="m_-4880881446777834969m_4005109044483004758:y4.1">th</span>
email that I rec'd today from <span
id="m_-4880881446777834969m_4005109044483004758:y4.2">Bardish's</span>
constituency assistant:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:19.2px"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi
Sharon,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:19.2px"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:19.2px"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks
for your email and for your call the
other day, could you please let me know
some info about who would like to meet?
Could you please also provide their
Waterloo addresses for our records?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:19.2px"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:19.2px"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks
and I hope you’re having a great day.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:19.2px"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:19.2px"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sincerely,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:19.2px"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:14.6667px">In my
experience, it is unheard of to screen
constituents for a meeting with a MP.
Let me know if you want to provide
Bardish's office with your address.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:14.6667px"><br>
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:14.6667px">Cheers,</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:14.6667px">Sharon</span></font></p>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
</div>
<div class="m_-4880881446777834969gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<p dir="ltr">Stephanie Janzen-Martin<br>
Find me at: Menno Adventures... <a
href="https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com</a>
Director of Program Development - <a
href="http://www.smcegypt.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.smcegypt.org</a> </p>
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<br>
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<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<p dir="ltr">Stephanie Janzen-Martin<br>
Find me at: Menno Adventures... <a
href="https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com</a>
Director of Program Development - <a
href="http://www.smcegypt.org" moz-do-not-send="true">www.smcegypt.org</a> </p>
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