<div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_quote">Hello All,</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Long time fair voting supporter, Harold Remus, asked that his comments regarding the origins of FPTP be passed on to the group. Below are his thoughts on the subject. </div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">With thanks,</div><div class="gmail_quote">Sharon<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Harold Remus</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hremus@golden.net">hremus@golden.net</a>></span><br>Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 10:17 PM<br>Subject: Fw: [fvc-wat-disc] Possibly dumb question on FPTP... FPTP VERSUS ACTUAL RACING....<br>To: Sharon Sommerville <<a href="mailto:sharonsommerville@gmail.com">sharonsommerville@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: Anita Nickerson <<a href="mailto:anita.nickerson@fairvote.ca">anita.nickerson@fairvote.ca</a>>, <a href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net">arthurd23@bell.net</a><br><br><br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000">
<div>
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">Sharon,
could you please pass this on to others? Thank you!</div></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline"> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">In
our electoral system what Mr. Arthur writes is absolutely true: There is
only one winner; the rest might have just as well have stayed in the starting
gate or ambled around the track.</div></div></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000">
<div> </div>
<div>In actual horse racing, however, one horse does not take all if it comes in
first. There are second and third place winners as well.</div>
<div>This is reflected in <font face="Arial"><font style="FONT-SIZE:9.8pt" color="#444444">pari-mutuel </font></font>wagering: you bet <strong>win
(1st)</strong>, <font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ffff00">or place (2d</font>), or
<font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ff0000">show (3rd)..</font>
</div>
<div> <a title="http://turfnsport.com/win-place-show-wagering/" href="http://turfnsport.com/win-place-show-wagering/" target="_blank">http://turfnsport.com/win-<wbr>place-show-wagering/</a></div>
<div>Another contrast to Trudeau’s FPTP is that the track authorities don’t
change these rules from one day to the next or one meet or one season to the
next..</div>
<p>The FPTP advocates know that in voting there is only “win.” No <font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ffffff">place</font>, no <font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ffffff">show</font>. Winner takes all.
Doesn’t make Horse Sense. OR Democratic Sense. </p>
<p>But if you are inclined to think that you can maybe get a “majority”
government with 1/3 of the 50% of the electorate that shows up at the polls,
well, of course, you go for it, despite any promises you may have made.</p>
<p><strong>Lost: INTEGRITY / DEMOCRACY</strong></p>
<p>hr</p>
<p>______________________________<wbr>_____________-</p><font face="Times New Roman">On 2018-02-04 04:41 PM, Dave Arthur wrote:<br>> Hi Jay
The term comes from horse racing where the <font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#ffff00">first horse that<br>> passes the post wins
and all the others lose and get nothing.</font> <br>> That’s just what
happens in each riding where the candidate that<br>> gets the most votes wins
and the other candidates lose and all the<br>> votes that they received have
no influence on the overall results<br>> whatsoever. The idea is that all
votes should have some effect on<br>> the overall representation which is
what PR achieves. Dave</font><font face="Times New Roman">On 2018-02-04 04:41
PM, Dave Arthur wrote:<br>> Hi Jay The term comes from horse racing where the
first horse that<br>> passes the post wins and all the others lose and get
nothing. <br>> That’s just what happens in each riding where the candidate
that<br>> gets the most votes wins and the other candidates lose and all
the<br>> votes that they received have no influence on the overall
results<br>> whatsoever. The idea is that all votes should have some effect
on<br>> the overall representation which is what PR achieves. Dave</font>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="sharonsommerville@gmail.com" href="mailto:sharonsommerville@gmail.com" target="_blank">Sharon Sommerville</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:23 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="jenn@jenniferross.ca" href="mailto:jenn@jenniferross.ca" target="_blank">Jennifer Ross</a> ; <a title="fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">FVC Waterloo Region
Discussion</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Possibly dumb question on
FPTP...</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Jenn,
<div> </div>
<div>That was a wonderful video. Elizabeth is clear & informative. Thanks
for passing it along.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Sharon</div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 5:36 PM, Jennifer Ross <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:2jennross@gmail.com" target="_blank">2jennross@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I watched an interesting Ted Talk from Elizabeth May on this just the
other day. Because, one of the things I had been using was the fact that
I can vote in these horse races by way of making a bet. And you know
what? I can WIN even though my horse wasn't the first past the
post!<br><br></div>I started to write it, but Elizabeth May is a LOT better in
explaining things than I am, so I'll leave it to her: <br><br><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwsSDynCcc" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=xcwsSDynCcc</a><br><br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span>On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Dave Arthur <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net" target="_blank">arthurd23@bell.net</a>></span> wrote:<br></span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="m_8875602519698067473m_-6194515017549211002m_1660389052274385700WordSection1"><span>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jay</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The term comes from horse racing where the first horse
that passes the post wins and all the others lose and get nothing.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">That’s just what happens in each riding where the
candidate that gets the most votes wins and the other candidates lose and
all the votes that they received have no influence on the overall results
whatsoever.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The idea is that all votes should have some effect on the
overall representation which is what PR achieves.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dave</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank">Mail</a>
for Windows 10</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<div style="BORDER-TOP:#e1e1e1 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:3pt;PADDING-LEFT:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADDING-TOP:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-RIGHT:0in"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:judkowitz@gmail.com" target="_blank">Jay
Judkowitz</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:14 PM<br><b>To:
</b><a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">FVC
Waterloo Region Discussion</a><br><b>Subject: </b>[fvc-wat-disc] Possibly
dumb question on FPTP...</p></div></span><span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, does anyone know why it's actually called "first past
the post"? </p><span>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That name makes it sound like there is some marker there
and it's a race to pass it. Like, first past 30% wins. But,
there is no post at all, nothing that can be determined even knowing the
number of candidates. Shouldn't it be called something like "Plurality
Voting" or "Plurality Takes All" or something more descriptive?</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></div></div></span></div><span>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance for the education!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u> </p></span></span></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>This
is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list<br>Post a message: <a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers<wbr>.org</a><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listserv.thinkers.org/m<wbr>ailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l<wbr>istserv.thinkers.org</a><br><br></blockquote></div><span class="m_8875602519698067473HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>
<div class="m_8875602519698067473m_-6194515017549211002gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:10px;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-STYLE:normal;BACKGROUND-COLOR:transparent"><span><font color="#888888"><font size="1"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,new york,times,serif"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT:10px">No other Western democratic country concentrates as
much political power </span></span></font><font size="1"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,new york,times,serif"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT:10px">in the hands of one person as Canada does with her
Prime Minister.
</span></span></font></font></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></font></span></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>This
is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list<br>Post a message: <a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers<wbr>.org</a><br>Unsubscribe:
<a href="http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listserv.thinkers.org/m<wbr>ailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l<wbr>istserv.thinkers.org</a><br><br></blockquote></div>
<div> </div></div>
<p>
</p><hr>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>This is the fvc-wat-disc
mailing list<br>Post a message:
<a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.<wbr>thinkers.org</a><br>Unsubscribe:
<a href="http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">http://listserv.thinkers.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_<wbr>listserv.thinkers.org</a><br><p></p></div></div></div>
<div id="m_8875602519698067473DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style="BORDER-TOP:#d3d4de 1px solid;COLOR:#000000">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="WIDTH:55px;PADDING-TOP:13px"><a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><img style="HEIGHT:29px;WIDTH:46px" alt="" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png" width="46" height="29"></a></td>
<td style="FONT-SIZE:13px;FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;WIDTH:470px;COLOR:#41424e;PADDING-TOP:12px;LINE-HEIGHT:18px">Virus-free.
<a style="COLOR:#4453ea" href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a>
</td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div>
</div><br></div></div>