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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hepburn’s op-ed today in The Star and The Record is almost exactly the same crap he wrote two years ago when Justin shut down the process.</p><p class=MsoNormal>I just sent the same letter I sent then to both The Star and The Record. Here it is.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-line-height-alt:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>Hepburn’s Arguments Ill-Conceived</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-line-height-alt:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>Bob Hepburn says changing our voting system is a bad idea. But 88% of the witnesses and briefs submitted by Canadians who have studied the issue say we need proportional representation, the system used by 90% of other developed democracies in the world. What do those countries know that Hepburn doesn’t? PR countries typically have more stable, longer lasting governments, better representation for all citizens, more cooperation and consensus, less partisan bitterness, longer range planning, less policy lurch, better voter turnouts, and sincere rather than strategic voting. Systems using multi-member or larger ridings with additional MPs give constituents more, not less contact with representatives. Candidate lists adding proportional MPs can be open and ranked by voters adding more democracy, not less. Canada is almost alone with its unfair version of democracy. Friends in countries with PR can’t believe we have stayed with a system where votes are not equal and too many do not count toward representation.</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>David Arthur</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>32 Springdale Drive</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>Kitchener, Ontario N2K1P9</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>arthurd23@bell.net</span></a><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'>519-579-3097</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:stephanie@janzenmartin.net">Stephanie Janzen-Martin</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:39 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org">FVC Waterloo Region Discussion</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>I agree that PR is not partisan - but I can also see how people who don't want change might use that to shut down discussion.</p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Discussions I've had with someone I know who works in a Liberal office on the Hill have been frustrating, to say the least. Basically "voting to avoid your worst case outcome should be good enough for you. Nobody else is trying to change the system, so why are you?"</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I suspect that he sees it as a highly partisan issue ie some parties want change and others don't and Greens would benefit from change so that's why they want it etc.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I maintain a sliver of hope (from conversations with Bardish on this and other topics), that she could, eventually, be convinced to support PR - on the premise that all votes should count equally, and that she should have to earn votes (by being first choice, instead of by creating fear of a worse choice), and that cooperation with other parties (eg NDP and Green) is a positive for democracy.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>SJM<br clear=all></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>...................................</p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Stephanie Janzen-Martin</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Menno Adventures: <a href="http://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com" target="_blank">sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com</a> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Support Independent School Funding: <a href="https://www.change.org/p/doug-ford-end-discriminatory-funding-for-catholic-public-private-schools-in-ontario" target="_blank">https://www.change.org/p/doug-ford-end-discriminatory-funding-for-catholic-public-private-schools-in-ontario</a> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Find me on LinkedIn. </p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 08:14, Dave Arthur <<a href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net">arthurd23@bell.net</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I still don’t see that electoral reform is in any way partisan.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It’s about our democracy.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Is that off-limits with our elected MPs?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Did everyone see Bob Hepburn’s op-ed in today’s Record/</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/9670223-six-reasons-to-just-say-no-to-electoral-reform/" target="_blank">https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/9670223-six-reasons-to-just-say-no-to-electoral-reform/</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>All six reasons to say no to ER are BS.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Anyone want to respond?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Dave A</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:cdcampbell9@gmail.com" target="_blank">Catherine Campbell</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:00 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">FVC Waterloo Region Discussion</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Catherine Fife said “partisan topics” couldn’t be discussed in her constituency office in the meeting that Jonathon and Don Fraser also attended a few months ago. You were at the only meeting I’ve attended with Bardish. You and I talked outside her outer door while we waited. </p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Oct 29, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Sharon Sommerville <<a href="mailto:sharonsommerville@gmail.com" target="_blank">sharonsommerville@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi Cathe,</p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I'm interested in the context of Bardish's comments about not discussing partisan politics in their constituency office. Can you give more details?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Three of us: Terry, Anita and myself met with Bardish to talk about Citizens' Assemblies prior to the election. Not sure if addressing Citizens' Assemblies is partisan. Addressing LPC issues in the constituency office would be partisan.</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 4:41 PM Catherine Campbell <<a href="mailto:cdcampbell9@gmail.com" target="_blank">cdcampbell9@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Re: “Fair Vote and PR are (allegedly) non-partisan”: Hey, Dave, You are delegated to find nests of Conservatives and Liberals and put the statement to them. Wear a body cam. Show us the video at the November meeting. Somebody should bring popcorn. Cathe Campbell</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Oct 29, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Dave Arthur <<a href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net" target="_blank">arthurd23@bell.net</a>> wrote:</p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>But Fairvote and electoral reform are not partisan. Correct?</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:cdcampbell9@gmail.com" target="_blank">Catherine Campbell</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, October 29, 2019 4:27 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">FVC Waterloo Region Discussion</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting</p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’m always on the side of activism. Whenever questions are posed to our group. “Shall we do X?”, my answer will always be, “Yes!.” So yes to what Peter wrote, and yes to delegating to Anita the herding, corralling and sending off of pro-PR residents to meet with our newly re-elected and elected MPs outside their constituency offices. Catherine Fife and I recall Bardish Chagger telling our Fair Vote they couldn’t discuss partisan politics inside their constituency office. Hence, we follow the rules of engagement and meet on neutral territory. </p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> </p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Oct 28, 2019, at 10:11 PM, Cathy Scott <<a href="mailto:cathy.scottfree@gmail.com" target="_blank">cathy.scottfree@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi, Everyone</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Just a reminder that this Wednesday, Oct. 30, is the last of the month and we will be meeting at the 'Hub' at 7:00pm, at St. John's church at Duke and Water Streets.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Here are some points of discussion:</p></div><div><ol start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'>election results (I will bring The Record edition that lists the results by riding). </li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'>strategies for getting electoral reform on the Liberal-NDP-Green agenda</li></ol></div><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'>visits to local Liberal MPs regarding establishing a Citizens' Assembly</li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'>should we accept Anita's offer to help us find and coordinate volunteers for these visits or organize them ourselves, independently of FVC?</li></ul></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> 3. website update - Jay recently found that our website is down</p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>See you then!</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Cathy</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 1:16 PM Cathy Scott <<a href="mailto:cathy.scottfree@gmail.com" target="_blank">cathy.scottfree@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi, Sharon and Bob</p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It occurred to me yesterday that this coming Wed. is the last of the month. </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Some of the agenda might be:</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- discussing the election results (I saved the Record edition that lists results riding by riding)</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- planning strategy for getting electoral reform on the Liberal-NDP-Green agenda; and how they could do it before the next election, if we can show that it should be important to them.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>What do you think?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Let me know if you want me to send out the announcement.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Cathyr </p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 11:15 AM Sharon Sommerville <<a href="mailto:sharonsommerville@gmail.com" target="_blank">sharonsommerville@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hello Bob, </p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Bob, congratulations on moving the Green vote up nearly 4% in Brantford-Brant. That represents a lot of work & that doesn't include travel time!</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>You usually send out the notice for our monthly meeting. Are you up to doing that or should Cathy/I send it out?</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It will be at the Hub.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Warm regards,</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>S.</p></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<br>This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list<br>Post a message: <a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org</a><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>_______________________________________________<br>This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list<br>Post a message: <a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org</a><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org</a></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>_______________________________________________<br>This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list<br>Post a message: <a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org</a><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org</a></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<br>This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list<br>Post a message: <a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org</a><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:4.8pt'>_______________________________________________<br>This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list<br>Post a message: <a href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org</a><br>Unsubscribe: <a href="http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank">http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>