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<p>I hate the thought of the UK election with FPTP. What sort of
strategic voting will there be?<br>
</p>
<p>The DUP (a fringe party) has had way too much power - that puts
paid to that particular argument.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-11-04 1:29 a.m., Donald Fraser
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGQVxk3p=MCHfgTQ_8Q1Vi_wWK9vO0QqAGorehbeRM=PyqKjfA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Excellent letter, David!!!</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 17:22,
Ellen Papenburg <<a href="mailto:sagittaep@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sagittaep@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Good for you David. It's a ridiculous archaic
system!
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Applauding you from Iceland. No northern
lights, raindrops instead. But lots of other things to
see. <br>
<br>
<div dir="auto">Ellen <br>
<br>
(via my android phone, typos may occur)<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 31, 2019,
20:50 Dave Arthur, <<a href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">arthurd23@bell.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hepburn’s op-ed today in The Star
and The Record is almost exactly the same crap he
wrote two years ago when Justin shut down the
process.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I just sent the same letter I
sent then to both The Star and The Record. Here it
is.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:black">Hepburn’s
Arguments Ill-Conceived</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:black">Bob Hepburn
says changing our voting system is a bad idea.
But 88% of the witnesses and briefs submitted by
Canadians who have studied the issue say we need
proportional representation, the system used by
90% of other developed democracies in the
world. What do those countries know that
Hepburn doesn’t? PR countries typically have
more stable, longer lasting governments, better
representation for all citizens, more
cooperation and consensus, less partisan
bitterness, longer range planning, less policy
lurch, better voter turnouts, and sincere rather
than strategic voting. Systems using
multi-member or larger ridings with additional
MPs give constituents more, not less contact
with representatives. Candidate lists adding
proportional MPs can be open and ranked by
voters adding more democracy, not less. Canada
is almost alone with its unfair version of
democracy. Friends in countries with PR can’t
believe we have stayed with a system where votes
are not equal and too many do not count toward
representation.</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">David
Arthur</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">32
Springdale Drive</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Kitchener,
Ontario N2K1P9</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt">arthurd23@bell.net</span></a><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">519-579-3097</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a
href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:stephanie@janzenmartin.net"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Stephanie Janzen-Martin</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:39 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">FVC Waterloo Region
Discussion</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's
FVC-WR Meeting</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree that PR is not partisan
- but I can also see how people who don't want
change might use that to shut down discussion.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Discussions I've had with
someone I know who works in a Liberal office on
the Hill have been frustrating, to say the
least. Basically "voting to avoid your worst
case outcome should be good enough for you.
Nobody else is trying to change the system, so
why are you?"</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I suspect that he sees it as
a highly partisan issue ie some parties want
change and others don't and Greens would benefit
from change so that's why they want it etc.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I maintain a sliver of hope
(from conversations with Bardish on this and
other topics), that she could, eventually, be
convinced to support PR - on the premise that
all votes should count equally, and that she
should have to earn votes (by being first
choice, instead of by creating fear of a worse
choice), and that cooperation with other parties
(eg NDP and Green) is a positive for democracy.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">SJM<br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">...................................</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Stephanie
Janzen-Martin</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Menno
Adventures: <a
href="http://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com</a> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Support
Independent School Funding: <a
href="https://www.change.org/p/doug-ford-end-discriminatory-funding-for-catholic-public-private-schools-in-ontario"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.change.org/p/doug-ford-end-discriminatory-funding-for-catholic-public-private-schools-in-ontario</a> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Find me on
LinkedIn. </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 08:14,
Dave Arthur <<a
href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">arthurd23@bell.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I still don’t see that
electoral reform is in any way partisan.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It’s about our democracy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is that off-limits with
our elected MPs?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Did everyone see Bob
Hepburn’s op-ed in today’s Record/</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/9670223-six-reasons-to-just-say-no-to-electoral-reform/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/9670223-six-reasons-to-just-say-no-to-electoral-reform/</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">All six reasons to say no
to ER are BS.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anyone want to respond?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dave A</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a
href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Mail</a> for
Windows 10</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><a
href="mailto:cdcampbell9@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Catherine
Campbell</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, October 30, 2019
11:00 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">FVC Waterloo
Region Discussion</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next
Week's FVC-WR Meeting</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Catherine Fife said
“partisan topics” couldn’t be discussed in
her constituency office in the meeting that
Jonathon and Don Fraser also attended a few
months ago. You were at the only meeting
I’ve attended with Bardish. You and I talked
outside her outer door while we waited. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">On Oct 29,
2019, at 6:50 PM, Sharon Sommerville
<<a
href="mailto:sharonsommerville@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sharonsommerville@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Cathe,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm interested in
the context of Bardish's comments
about not discussing partisan
politics in their constituency
office. Can you give more details?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Three of us:
Terry, Anita and myself met with
Bardish to talk about Citizens'
Assemblies prior to the election.
Not sure if addressing Citizens'
Assemblies is partisan. Addressing
LPC issues in the constituency
office would be partisan.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 29,
2019 at 4:41 PM Catherine Campbell
<<a
href="mailto:cdcampbell9@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">cdcampbell9@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in
0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Re: “Fair
Vote and PR are (allegedly)
non-partisan”: Hey, Dave, You
are delegated to find nests of
Conservatives and Liberals and
put the statement to them. Wear
a body cam. Show us the video
at the November meeting.
Somebody should bring popcorn.
Cathe Campbell</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">On
Oct 29, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Dave
Arthur <<a
href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">arthurd23@bell.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But
Fairvote and electoral
reform are not partisan.
Correct?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from
<a
href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Mail</a>
for Windows 10</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid
rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:
</b><a
href="mailto:cdcampbell9@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Catherine
Campbell</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday,
October 29, 2019 4:27 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">FVC
Waterloo Region
Discussion</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re:
[fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's
FVC-WR Meeting</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m
always on the side of
activism. Whenever questions
are posed to our group.
“Shall we do X?”, my answer
will always be, “Yes!.” So
yes to what Peter wrote, and
yes to delegating to Anita
the herding, corralling and
sending off of pro-PR
residents to meet with our
newly re-elected and elected
MPs outside their
constituency offices.
Catherine Fife and I recall
Bardish Chagger telling our
Fair Vote they couldn’t
discuss partisan politics
inside their constituency
office. Hence, we follow the
rules of engagement and meet
on neutral territory. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt">On
Oct 28, 2019, at 10:11
PM, Cathy Scott <<a
href="mailto:cathy.scottfree@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">cathy.scottfree@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,
Everyone</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just
a reminder that this
Wednesday, Oct. 30,
is the last of the
month and we will be
meeting at the 'Hub'
at 7:00pm, at St.
John's church at
Duke and Water
Streets.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here
are some points of
discussion:</p>
</div>
<div>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li
class="MsoNormal">election
results (I will
bring The Record
edition that lists
the results by
riding). </li>
<li
class="MsoNormal">strategies
for getting
electoral reform
on the
Liberal-NDP-Green
agenda</li>
</ol>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:5pt 0in
5pt 30pt">
<ul type="disc">
<li
class="MsoNormal">visits
to local Liberal
MPs regarding
establishing a
Citizens' Assembly</li>
<li
class="MsoNormal">should
we accept Anita's
offer to help us
find and
coordinate volunteers
for these visits
or organize them
ourselves,
independently of
FVC?</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">
3. website update -
Jay recently found
that our website is
down</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">See
you then!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cathy</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at
1:16 PM Cathy Scott
<<a
href="mailto:cathy.scottfree@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">cathy.scottfree@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid
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0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt
0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,
Sharon and Bob</p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">It
occurred to me
yesterday that
this coming Wed.
is the last of
the month. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Some
of the agenda
might be:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">-
discussing the
election results
(I saved the
Record edition
that lists
results riding
by riding)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">-
planning
strategy for
getting
electoral reform
on the
Liberal-NDP-Green
agenda; and how
they could do it
before the
next election,
if we can show
that it should
be important to
them.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">What
do you think?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Let
me know if you
want me to send
out the
announcement.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Cathyr </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Sat, Oct 26,
2019 at 11:15 AM
Sharon
Sommerville <<a
href="mailto:sharonsommerville@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sharonsommerville@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in
0in 0in
6pt;margin:5pt 0in
5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Hello
Bob, </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Bob,
congratulations on moving the Green vote up nearly 4% in
Brantford-Brant.
That
represents a
lot of work
& that
doesn't
include travel
time!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">You
usually send
out the notice
for our
monthly
meeting. Are
you up to
doing that or
should Cathy/I
send it out?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">It
will be at the
Hub.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Warm
regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">S.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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