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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Good on you, thank you!</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">David<br></div><div><br></div>
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On Saturday, October 2, 2021, 12:16:28 AM EDT, Kevin Smith <kevedsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="yiv7893634425"><div><div dir="ltr">I submitted the letter, and that inspired a larger piece, which I posted to my blog:<div><br clear="none"></div><div><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.stepstoabetterworld.com/post/cpc-or-ppc-which-is-worse-and-what-can-we-do">https://www.stepstoabetterworld.com/post/cpc-or-ppc-which-is-worse-and-what-can-we-do</a><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Kevin.</div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv7893634425gmail_quote"><div class="yiv7893634425yqt1022095239" id="yiv7893634425yqt17434"><div class="yiv7893634425gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 1:27 PM Mary Jackes <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mkj@bell.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:mkj@bell.net">mkj@bell.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv7893634425gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div>
<p>How about the DUP messing with what was going on in Westminster -
more or less controlling the Tory voice on Brexit under May? My
favourite example in response to this sort of question.<br clear="none">
</p>
<p>Mary<br clear="none">
</p>
<div>On 2021-10-01 1:09 p.m., Sharon
Sommerville wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">And, we can all remember when the BQ became Her
Majesty's Official Opposition. FPTP does not protect us from
radical parties gaining seats in Parliament. But people might
not become so radicalized if there was more power sharing and
their voices had an outlet in government before becoming more
extreme.
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Sharon</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv7893634425gmail_quote">
<div class="yiv7893634425gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 12:02
PM Michael O'Brien <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:emandjayobrien@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:emandjayobrien@gmail.com">emandjayobrien@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv7893634425gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">Bob Hepburn is a schill for the Federal Liberal
Party.</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv7893634425gmail_quote">
<div class="yiv7893634425gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at
5:39 PM Dave Arthur <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net">arthurd23@bell.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Good letter Kevin.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Does the Star say 150 limit?</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">In the past with the KW Record
I’ve gone over a bit and it’s been accepted.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">You could try.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Dave A</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Sent from <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a>
for Windows</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in;"><b>From:
</b><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:kevedsmith@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:kevedsmith@gmail.com">Kevin
Smith</a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent: </b>Thursday, September 30, 2021 5:19 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To: </b><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org">FVC
Waterloo Region Discussion</a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Bob Hepburn -
anti-PR piece in the Star</p>
</div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p style="margin:0in;"><b><span>Hi folks:</span></b><span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:serif;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><b><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:serif;">Here's
my draft. 194 words. Do I really need to
trim it to 150? Any feedback?</span></b><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:serif;"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:serif;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><b><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:serif;">Kevin.</span></b><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:serif;"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:serif;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><b><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:serif;">First
Past the Post does not protect us</span></b><span style="font-size:15pt;font-family:serif;"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;">To
the editor:</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:15px;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;">Bob
Hepburn argues that Maxime Bernier’s PPC Party
shows the folly of Proportional Representation.<span>
</span>However, we’ve seen how close we came to
having Maxime Bernier as Prime Minister under
First Past the Post.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:15px;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;">Andrew
Sheer beat Maxime Bernier by 50.95% to 49.05% on
the final ballot of the 2017 leadership vote.<span>
</span>A change of one percentage point could
have given us our very own Donald Trump-like
figure leading that party.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:15px;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;">In
2019, with First Past the Post and as little as
3% more of the vote, the Conservatives would be
able to win majority government with 100% of the
power.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:15px;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;">So
while PR could give a right-wing demagogue a
voice in parliament, as every party with
sufficient support would have,
first-past-the-post could have made him Prime
Minister with a minority of votes but a majority
of seats.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;min-height:15px;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-stretch:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:serif;">Let’s
face it.<span> </span>Any party with 5%
support stands a chance of winning seats in
parliament in any system. With Proportional
Representation, we have greater party choice,
better representation, and parties that need to
work together, and have less incentive to pull
the plug and have elections like the one we just
had.<span> </span>Far from folly, Bob.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 4:31
PM Dave Arthur <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:arthurd23@bell.net">arthurd23@bell.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;">
<div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Thank you Anita. This is
a very important topic.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">The linked article that
Anita included is very much worth reading.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">We need to make the case
that the results of our election in FPTP
with low voter turnout, strategic voting,
and all the covid polarization tinged with
the populism that seems to be happening in
many countries does not forecast what would
happen with PR. </p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">In fact, PR would likely
improve voter turnout, eliminate strategic
voting, and reduce the effects of
polarization and populism.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Much of that would result
from the increased cooperation of parties
and a reduced toxic environment in our
parliament.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">The Green vote would
certainly increase to its past performance
of more than the 5% threshold and mean
considerably more than 2 seats.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">The PPC vote would very
likely decrease and not meet the 5%
threshold in addition to not likely electing
anyone as was the case this time.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">One of the points I
always make to people concerned about the
fringe and single issue parties gaining
influence is that in the last election, we
had 14 such parties who together got less
than 1% of the votes.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">We still have a job to do
to counter the effect of the PPC.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">That could certainly
include a letter to the Star.</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Dave A</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Sent from <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a>
for Windows</p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:anitann88@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:anitann88@gmail.com">Anita
Nickerson</a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent: </b>Thursday, September 30, 2021
1:01 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To: </b><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org">FVC
Waterloo Region Discussion</a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Bob
Hepburn - anti-PR piece in the Star</p>
</div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Please write to the
Star! <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Yes, the PPC is costing us supporters. </p>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">People are seeing
those charts of 17-21 seats everywhere.
It is costing us our own supporters -
the many soft supporters, not the core
long time people like you - and "the
public". There is no doubt. I see it
everywhere. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I'm not really convinced that valiantly
arguing that the PPC getting 21 seats
because they "deserve" it, that's
"better democracy", when they were
basically a one-issue party this
election for people who think blocking
hospitals is great, is a winner with the
people we need to convince. We may be
democratically and morally and
technically correct, but we're only
convincing ourselves by focusing on
that. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
There is no great argument that can
defeat an EMOTIONAL knee-jerk fear
people have of "extremists in
Parliament." Logic does not overcome
emotion. We have been thoroughly
defeated on that field before.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<b>Nevertheless, do try to give people
something else to think about and
focus on! <br clear="none">
</b><br clear="none">
Like yes, remind people that Bernier sat
in cabinet and came with 1.7% of winning
the Con leadership. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Then these folks who
are terrified of having a few isolated
PPC in a corner of Parliament could have
a Bernier running the country on 33% of
the vote. That's a realistic fear - that
we can address now with electoral reform
now - or wait until it's staring us in
the face, at which point it becomes much
more difficult.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
A PR system for Canada WOULD NOT deliver
the PPC 17 or 21 seats. Here is the
reality:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.fairvote.ca/2021/09/22/simulationssmallparties/">https://www.fairvote.ca/2021/09/22/simulationssmallparties/</a></p>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Milder numbers may
take a dent of the fear, but won't
remove it. For many people one PPC
seat is too many and makes them think
they'd rather stick with "the devil
they know".</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">The best tactic is
likely to focus on the glaring flaws
and consequences of our FPTP system
for everyone. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">$600,000,000 early
elections. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Governments with
32.6% support who try to cooperate
with others as little as humanly
possible, when what we need are
parties to cooperate to tackle issues
that can only be solved by "all hands
on deck" like climate change action. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">25/25 seats in the
City of Toronto going Lib and 14/14 in
SK going Con - leaving NO VOICE for
those with any other values. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">The vast majority
who again elected nobody and the
massive disengagement that is causing
as voter turnout plummeted to 59%. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Are we going to let
fear of a handful of purple seats
frighten us from solving those very
big problems?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><b>PLEASE WRITE TO
THE STAR. So they see a LOT of
people pushing back. </b>Much
better than talking to each other on
this list!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Anita</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 30, 2021
at 7:08 AM stuchandler43 <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:stuchandler43@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:stuchandler43@gmail.com">stuchandler43@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;">
<div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">It doesn't take
a genius to see through Bob
Hepburn's bombastic blather about
how scary PR is. It is truly
unfortunate that he uses his
position of "journalist" as a bully
pulpit to spread his stupidity with
such perceived authority. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">His piece
contains the information necessary
to refute his useless fear of Max
Bernier and the PPC, who he claims
would create havic with the 25 seats
they may have gained under PR. 25
seats out of 338 would only be of
influence if the Conservatives got
about 160 seats, and needed the PPC
to pass legislation. With all the
polls of public opinion in Canada
indicating that Canadians are
overwhelmingly progressive
politically, there is zero
likelihood of that happening under
PR. But it could happen under FPTP
(!!!!!), which could allow the CPC
to "win" enough seats with 30% of
the votes (let's say) to gain a
minority close enough to half that
the few seats Bernier <i>might </i>get
(in this hypothetical case) could
allow them to form a coalition
government capable of passing
legislation. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">So, once again,
PR proves it's better than FPTP
since such a scenario is <b><i>much
</i></b>less likely to happen with
a PR Electoral system.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Moreover, under
FPTP, Justin has just been showing
us how easy it is for his minority
Liberal party to ignore most of what
the NDP wants because he's been
pretty sure the NDP will prop the
Liberals up rather than risk forcing
an election that might allow the
Conservatives to gain power. (Only
Justin was stupid enough to risk
that fate!!)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Ain't politics
Fun?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Cheerio </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Stu</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div id="yiv7893634425gmail-m_6959068868766210954gmail-m_6199814903449857976gmail-m_-6762924404931597961gmail-m_-6375882236679158998gmail-m_-3318084747394694843composer_signature">
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:rgb(87,87,87);">Sent
from my Galaxy</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;">--------
Original message --------</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;">From: Kevin
Smith <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:kevedsmith@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:kevedsmith@gmail.com">kevedsmith@gmail.com</a>>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;">Date:
2021-09-30 2:13 a.m. (GMT-05:00) </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;">To: FVC
Waterloo Region Discussion <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org">fvc-wat-disc@listserv.thinkers.org</a>>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;">Subject:
[fvc-wat-disc] Bob Hepburn -
anti-PR piece in the Star </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Things have
gotten quiet apparently from the
progressives calling for PR,, since
the PPC would have been the main
benefactor of it in this last
election.</p>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2021/09/29/max-bernier-and-the-folly-of-electoral-reform.html">https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2021/09/29/max-bernier-and-the-folly-of-electoral-reform.html</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Kevin.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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</blockquote>
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<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">-- </p>
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<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"><i>Proportional
representation delivers more of what
YOU voted for!</i></p>
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<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal">Sign the Declaration: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.fairvote.ca/declaration">www.fairvote.ca/declaration</a></p>
<p class="yiv7893634425MsoNormal"> </p>
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