[fvc-wat-disc] Basic Canvassing Script

[Kevin Smith]

Hi Graham:

There's an FAQ on the Fair Vote Canada site which addresses this
question, and many others:

http://www.fairvotecanada.org/files/FAQ%20-%20v%201.3_0.pdf

Here are the relevant points:

7. MYTH: Proportional representation will cause endless minority
governments and constant elections.

FACT: First, it is necessary to make a very important distinction. Currently,
Canadians are governed by a minority government created by an electoral
system with incentives that make these governments short-lived. FPTP
elections almost always give one party far more seats than deserved and
majority control with far less than majority support. This works
against longterm
stability in minority governments. Why would a party continue to
negotiate and compromise with other parties, when it believes it could win 40
per cent of the votes, unfairly gain a majority of seats and wield 100 per cent
of the power without compromise? Little wonder that Canadian minority
governments have a relatively short lifespan.

The governments in the vast majority of fair voting countries are not minority
governments, but rather majority coalition governments.

This distinction reflects real differences in how those governments are
constituted. For example, minority governments in our current system are
usually composed of one party which has received merely a plurality of the
votes (despite likely winning more seats than their popular vote would afford
them).

On the other hand, coalition governments are composed of more than one
political party and represent the majority of the voting population. Generally,
the parties have come to some type of agreement on government policies
and each party has seats in cabinet.

Usually, the likely coalition partners are well known before the election. After
the election, the largest party and one or more like-minded parties in the
legislature forge a coalition agreement – not a fragile, short-lived arrangement
– but a legislative agenda they intend to implement together.

All parties in the coalition agree to these compromises during the
formation of the government, so the government doesn't get formed
until the disagreements are worked out. The end result is that all
members of the coalition have a stake in ensuring government
stability. The smaller coalition partner doesn't feel moved to
threaten to bring down the government because they are part of the
government. This gives coalition partners strong
incentives to implement common policies.

8. MYTH: Coalition governments are unstable.

FACT: Many forms of proportional representation are found in the world
today, but let's look at two models for reform often proposed in
Canada:

Mixed-Member Proportional (MMP) like they have in Germany, and the
Irish Single Transferable Vote (STV) system, chosen by the BC
Citizens' Assembly. When you compare the frequency of elections in
these two countries to similar numbers for Canada, the results are
striking:

Ireland: 16 elections since 1948, 1 election every 3.63 years
Germany: 16 elections since 1949, 1 election every 3.56 years
Canada: 18 elections since 1945, 1 election every 3.39 years

In these two countries, majority coalition governments are the norm.
Ireland hasn't had a single-party government since the 1980s. Germany
has only had one single-party government in its entire post-war
history.

Finally, coalition governments can also maintain stability by inviting
in a new coalition partner, if another partner breaks away over policy
disagreements. This would be comparable to a cabinet shuffle in our
current system.

Hope this helps,
Kevin.

On 9/18/07, Graham E <synesthesia507 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Hey Y'all,
>  I've run into some questions about the stability of Minority Governments
> (er, Coalition...), and about how productive they are, and was wondering if
> there were any stats or reports I could proffer to inquiring parties?
>  Cheers,
>
>
>
>  Graham Arthur Engel
>
>  "Live simply so that others may live."
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:02:25 -0400
> > From: btanguay at wlu.ca
> > To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org;
> adaigen at sympatico.ca
> > Subject: RE: [fvc-wat-disc] Basic Canvassing Script
>
> >
> > Very nicely done, Ari.
> >
> > I'm trying to remain kind and reassuring, believe me. But with some of the
> stuff being said and written this week, it's getting much more difficult to
> maintain that posture! Ah well, nobody said this would be easy.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Brian
> >
> > >>> adaigen at sympatico.ca 9/18/2007 1:29:05 AM >>>
> > Hey,
> >
> > I like this script--it hits at the meat of the issue, which is that this
> > system will actually elect the governments that people voted for.
> >
> > This may seem obvious, but just to be sure, let's all ready to meet some
> of
> > the following concerns. Not that we'll sway the hard core opposition, but
> I
> > think a lot of people are just afraid and could be convinced by good
> reason.
> > (I think a lot of this may also be at voteformmp.com, so apologies to
> > everyone who would already have known what to say.):
> >
> > They say: "I don't want to lose local representation."
> > You say: "Under MMP you'll still have a local representative. And in a way
> > you have more local representation, since you can vote for a local
> candidate
> > you like even if you don't like his or her party."
> >
> > They say: "I'm afraid we'll have permanent minorities and elections every
> > year."
> > You say: "Actually, parties cooperate to make stable minority governments
> in
> > a lot of countries, like Germany and Ireland. And the parties having to
> work
> > together will mean legislation that represents more people's views."
> >
> > They say: "Our system has stood the test of time, why change it?"
> > You say: "Actually, it hasn't stood the test of time so well--almost all
> > first-world countries have switched to some form of proportional voting.
> > They see that it's fairer, and it would be fairer here too."
> >
> > They say: "I vote Liberal, so the FPTP system works for me."
> > You say: "Actually, it worked against the Liberals for three straight
> > elections. PC and NDP got majorities with 45% and 38% of the vote." and/or
> > "Under the current system a lot of Liberal votes are wasted too--if you're
> > in a riding that always goes conservative, your vote doesn't matter--but
> it
> > will under MMP." (That could be particularly relevant for those canvassing
> > in Kitchener-Waterloo.)
> >
> > They say: "I vote PC, so first-past-the-post works for me."
> > You say: "Actually, the current system hurt the PC in the last
> > election--under MMP it would have more seats. And the current system gave
> > the Liberals a majority with 46% of the vote--and back in 1990, it gave
> the
> > NDP a majority with 38% of the vote." And/or "Under the current system a
> lot
> > of Conservative votes are wasted too--PC votes in Liberal or NDP ridings
> > don't matter, but they will under MMP."
> >
> > They say: "I don't want unelected Members of Parliament chosen by party
> > leaders."
> > You say: "Actually, they would be elected--they would be in Parliament
> > because their party got a certain amount of votes. (And you would know
> > beforehand who they would be, since each party would have its list ready
> > before the election. So if you don't like the people on a party's list,
> you
> > can vote against it.)
> >
> >
> > I hope that's not too long or too obvious--I just wanted to give some
> snappy
> > answers to questions that will no doubt come up. If we can answer them
> > kindly, reassuringly, and intelligently, I think we can be very effective.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Ari
> >
> > >From: "Joshua Smyth" <smyth.josh at gmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> > ><fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> > >To: "FVC Waterloo Region Discussion"
> <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> > >Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] Basic Canvassing Script
> > >Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:24:53 -0400
> > >
> > >Here's the text of a basic script for door-to-door work. This is just
> > >a quick job, so anyone feel free to edit it and bounce it back to the
> > >list. Cheers
> > >
> > >Vote for MMP * Quick Script
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi there, I'm (blank) representing the Vote for MMP Campaign. Have
> > >you heard about the referendum on October 10th?
> > >
> > >You'll have a chance to choose how you elect members to the Provincial
> > >Legislature between the system we have right now, and a new system
> > >called Mixed Member Proportional that has been recommended by the
> > >Ontario Citizen's assembly.
> > >
> > >The Citizens Assembly is a group of people that chosen at random (like
> > >a jury), one person for each riding, that spent eight months getting
> > >educated and having public consultations about possible changes to the
> > >electoral system. At the end of this process, they recommended that
> > >Ontario adopt a new system that offers more choice, fairer results,
> > >and stronger representation.
> > >
> > >Here's how the new system will work. When you go to the polls, you'll
> > >get two votes. One will be for a local riding representative, just
> > >like you have now. On the other side of the ballot, you can vote for
> > >the party of your choice. In an election under the new system, there
> > >will be 129 seats up for election. 90 of them will be riding seats,
> > >just like we have now. The other 39 seats will be proportional seats,
> > >that will be used to bring a party's share of the legislature as close
> > >as possible to their share of the party vote. If a party gets 35% of
> > >the vote but only 30 % of the seats from ridings, they will be
> > >allocated seats from the proportional section to get them as closes as
> > >possible to 35% of the seats. This will be a big change from the
> > >system we have now * the Liberals got 46% of the vote, 70% of the
> > >seats, and 100% of the power in the last election, and the results
> > >were very similar for the PC and NDP before them. That is neither
> > >fair nor representative of what the people of Ontario voted for.
> > >
> > >As well, under the current system, if you vote for a party that
> > >doesn't win locally, your vote is essentially wasted * no one goes to
> > >parliament to represent your views. The new system would change that:
> > >even if the local candidate you prefer doesn't win, your party vote
> > >would work to electing MPPs from the party of your choice. No wasted
> > >votes. It also means that if you like a local candidate, but don't
> > >like his/her party, you can split your vote and still have your views
> > >represented.
> > >
> > >If you have any questions, feel free to give this brochure a look
> > >over, or check out the websites listed on it. This is a
> > >once-in-a-lifetime chance to change the way politics works in Ontario,
> > >so on election day be sure to vote for the Alternative Electoral
> > >System proposed by the citizens assembly - if it passes, your voice
> > >will be heard much more clearly from now on. Thanks for your time.
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> > >fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> >
> >http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc
> >
> >
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