[fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum

Fri Dec 2 12:53:48 EST 2016

Thanks Tony.
I think we all need as much encouragement as possible at this time.
Letter writing to all the newspapers, Macleans, MPs, Monsef, Trudeau, and 
others is probably our best tool to reach numbers of people and the key 
people.
Social media is good too.
Talking to friends, family, colleagues and groups when possible are also 
valuable but the numbers reached are fewer.
Hopefully all the organization web sites and mailings like Fairvote, 
Leadnow, Broadbent, Council of Canadians, NDP, Green Party, and others will 
continue working on it.
As you say it may still happen.
Some baseball coach once said it ain't over 'til it's over.
Dave A

-----Original Message----- 
From: Tony Christie
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 8:31 AM
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum

Some nice analysis here and possibly even "true" or likely to come true. 
Nevertheless, it may only be helpful to the cause of promoting and 
ultimately achieving a fairer system in that it illustrates one of the 
normal ways popular movements can lose their way. Oppositition, setbacks, 
discouragement, feeding internal disagreement, potentially leading to 
disarray.
I haven't participated in this forum yet but follow along sometimes, less 
often than I should, no doubt. But I am moved to do so now because I am 
inspired, from time to time by those who, despite opposition, 
discouragement, setbacks, manage somehow to avoid discouragement. This is 
not to endorse naiivite or any hook, line, and sinker responses to normal 
political bait like sunny ways, etc., but to urge a healthy skepticism, even 
cynicism just slightly over-balanced by a just slightly healthier optimism 
and hope.
The Minister and her gov't have been forced to give Canadians another peek 
at their cards. Their still the same cards as they were two days ago. But 
now we have a better idea. This gives activists and advocates a better 
position, not a worse one, in deciding which cards they (we?) might want to 
play. We can play the disarray and infighting card, I suppose, but...
I too don't have time to write to the MP, and I too am tempted to think that 
it would be a pointless waste, but I thonk I'll do it anyway. It's a pretty 
cheap card and I've played damn few, so far, it must be admitted.
Finally, while I don't usually feel comfortable issuing injunctions or 
commands to email lists from my lurking shadows, I will in this case give it 
a try.
So.
Don't give up! Don't let's very often allow our inevitable disappointments 
as fuel to discourage one another! Sure, "it's" (probably) "not going to 
happen"! But it It may yet still happen!
Resume dreaming!
Best to all,
Tony
________________________________________
From: fvc-wat-disc [fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] on behalf of 
John Cooper [johnco at golden.net]
Sent: December 1, 2016 10:33 PM
To: 'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'
Cc: fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum

This shows once again that the NDP is willing to compromise on some matters 
in order to obtain the end goal.
If they had not, the media, The Green party, FVC etc  and all of the NDP 
enemies would have criticized them forever.

The Liberals will not compromise. And based on everything that has been 
written in the numerous reports I have read tonight and for many months –
   Trudeau, the Liberal party and the Liberal government will not support 
PR.
The Liberals are known for being able to ‘suck and blow' at the same time 
and for not keeping promises – just as the Minister said about making 
election promises and not keeping them.
Even the cynical public will say that they know all parties don’t intend to 
keep promises.

As for a referendum: the winner will be the group with the most money to 
advertise their position.
And you can bet that the Liberals will not support an electronic vote so 
that all possible voters will have an equal opportunity – and the younger 
voters, a motivation to vote.
Despite being a ‘darling’ to the under 40’s, and supposedly keen on using 
new technology, he knows that this demographic elected him and expect him to 
honour his promise.

Without PR, he does not need their vote next election to win because they 
will not vote. They will be disenchanted.

Writing a letter to Waterloo MP Bardish Chagger will not make any 
difference. She obtained her cabinet position by supporting Trudeau.
She will not go against him, the party and the government because otherwise 
she will lose her role.

Stop dreaming!  It’s not going to happen!

John

From: fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] On 
Behalf Of Sharon Sommerville
Sent: December-01-16 9:27 PM
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
Cc: fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum

Hi Sean,

The "politics" comment is in part because clearly there was horse trading. 
The NDP who have never supported a referendum moved their position to accept 
a referendum to get a consensus.  Bringing forward a consensus report was 
critical to keeping the initiative alive.  It could well be that horse 
trading was necessary because the Liberals were not supporting PR.

And, that doesn't mean we are going to get a referendum.  On a good day, I 
think the post card campaign is an opportunity to illustrate that there 
isn't a need for a referendum. At this point the cabinet can do what it 
wishes.  The weather vane can point in whichever direction the cabinet wants 
it to point.

Minister Monsef has a knack for getting herself into political hot water.  I 
agree that her comments in the House today were very insulting and ill 
advised.  Good chance that Minister Monsef will be shuffled out of that 
portfolio at the first available opportunity.

Cheers,
Sharon

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 7:36 PM, 
haberlin at gmail.com<mailto:haberlin at gmail.com> 
<haberlin at gmail.com<mailto:haberlin at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Sharon,
Given the dismissive conduct of the Minister Monsef plus the Liberals 
members of the ERRE focusing on the Gallagher formula, I would say the 
referendum compromise is not politics.  Rather, it is the Liberal party 
saying NO to proportional representation.
All that the Liberal members had to do is support PR and the referendum 
option would have been another example of Conservation voter suppression.
From: fvc-wat-disc 
[mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org<mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org>] 
On Behalf Of Sharon Sommerville
Sent: December 1, 2016 6:33 PM
To: 
fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org<mailto:fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>; 
fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org<mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum
Hello FairVoting Friends,
Today the ERRE committee tabled its report to Parliament.
The committee recommended proportional representation!  And, as this is 
politics, the committee also recommended a referendum.
Enormous thanks to the ERRE committee for their hard work & commitment on 
behalf of all of us as they tabled a majority report. Given the numerous 
perspectives around the table, that wasn't an easy task.
Now, the report will go to Cabinet.  The Cabinet will make the final 
decision on what electoral reform will look like and we can expect 
legislation to be introduced in Parliament in the spring.  Until then, let's 
keep the pressure up on our MPs and our government.  If we want a fair 
electoral system, we need to speak up and speak out.  Write letters to the 
editor of the Record, the Post, the Chronicle, call, email or meet with your 
MP, talk to friends, neighbours and family, use social media to get out the 
message.  We would be happy to give a presentation on electoral systems to 
any group.  Just ask.
We have an amazing opportunity to finally get a fair electoral system! 
Let's work together and make it happen!
With thanks,
Sharon
for FVC-WR
PS.,
Here is the link to the report.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=e&Mode=1&Parl=42&Ses=1&DocId=8655791
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