[fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum

Fri Dec 2 13:07:45 EST 2016

I thought that was Fred Shero ... oh wait,  it was the Yankee catcher Yogi
Berra

On 2 December 2016 at 12:53, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:

> Thanks Tony.
> I think we all need as much encouragement as possible at this time.
> Letter writing to all the newspapers, Macleans, MPs, Monsef, Trudeau, and
> others is probably our best tool to reach numbers of people and the key
> people.
> Social media is good too.
> Talking to friends, family, colleagues and groups when possible are also
> valuable but the numbers reached are fewer.
> Hopefully all the organization web sites and mailings like Fairvote,
> Leadnow, Broadbent, Council of Canadians, NDP, Green Party, and others will
> continue working on it.
> As you say it may still happen.
> Some baseball coach once said it ain't over 'til it's over.
> Dave A
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Christie
> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 8:31 AM
> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum
>
> Some nice analysis here and possibly even "true" or likely to come true.
> Nevertheless, it may only be helpful to the cause of promoting and
> ultimately achieving a fairer system in that it illustrates one of the
> normal ways popular movements can lose their way. Oppositition, setbacks,
> discouragement, feeding internal disagreement, potentially leading to
> disarray.
> I haven't participated in this forum yet but follow along sometimes, less
> often than I should, no doubt. But I am moved to do so now because I am
> inspired, from time to time by those who, despite opposition,
> discouragement, setbacks, manage somehow to avoid discouragement. This is
> not to endorse naiivite or any hook, line, and sinker responses to normal
> political bait like sunny ways, etc., but to urge a healthy skepticism,
> even cynicism just slightly over-balanced by a just slightly healthier
> optimism and hope.
> The Minister and her gov't have been forced to give Canadians another peek
> at their cards. Their still the same cards as they were two days ago. But
> now we have a better idea. This gives activists and advocates a better
> position, not a worse one, in deciding which cards they (we?) might want to
> play. We can play the disarray and infighting card, I suppose, but...
> I too don't have time to write to the MP, and I too am tempted to think
> that it would be a pointless waste, but I thonk I'll do it anyway. It's a
> pretty cheap card and I've played damn few, so far, it must be admitted.
> Finally, while I don't usually feel comfortable issuing injunctions or
> commands to email lists from my lurking shadows, I will in this case give
> it a try.
> So.
> Don't give up! Don't let's very often allow our inevitable disappointments
> as fuel to discourage one another! Sure, "it's" (probably) "not going to
> happen"! But it It may yet still happen!
> Resume dreaming!
> Best to all,
> Tony
> ________________________________________
> From: fvc-wat-disc [fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] on behalf
> of John Cooper [johnco at golden.net]
> Sent: December 1, 2016 10:33 PM
> To: 'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'
> Cc: fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum
>
> This shows once again that the NDP is willing to compromise on some
> matters in order to obtain the end goal.
> If they had not, the media, The Green party, FVC etc  and all of the NDP
> enemies would have criticized them forever.
>
> The Liberals will not compromise. And based on everything that has been
> written in the numerous reports I have read tonight and for many months –
>   Trudeau, the Liberal party and the Liberal government will not support
> PR.
> The Liberals are known for being able to ‘suck and blow' at the same time
> and for not keeping promises – just as the Minister said about making
> election promises and not keeping them.
> Even the cynical public will say that they know all parties don’t intend
> to keep promises.
>
> As for a referendum: the winner will be the group with the most money to
> advertise their position.
> And you can bet that the Liberals will not support an electronic vote so
> that all possible voters will have an equal opportunity – and the younger
> voters, a motivation to vote.
> Despite being a ‘darling’ to the under 40’s, and supposedly keen on using
> new technology, he knows that this demographic elected him and expect him
> to honour his promise.
>
> Without PR, he does not need their vote next election to win because they
> will not vote. They will be disenchanted.
>
> Writing a letter to Waterloo MP Bardish Chagger will not make any
> difference. She obtained her cabinet position by supporting Trudeau.
> She will not go against him, the party and the government because
> otherwise she will lose her role.
>
> Stop dreaming!  It’s not going to happen!
>
> John
>
> From: fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] On
> Behalf Of Sharon Sommerville
> Sent: December-01-16 9:27 PM
> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> Cc: fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum
>
> Hi Sean,
>
> The "politics" comment is in part because clearly there was horse trading.
> The NDP who have never supported a referendum moved their position to
> accept a referendum to get a consensus.  Bringing forward a consensus
> report was critical to keeping the initiative alive.  It could well be that
> horse trading was necessary because the Liberals were not supporting PR.
>
> And, that doesn't mean we are going to get a referendum.  On a good day, I
> think the post card campaign is an opportunity to illustrate that there
> isn't a need for a referendum. At this point the cabinet can do what it
> wishes.  The weather vane can point in whichever direction the cabinet
> wants it to point.
>
> Minister Monsef has a knack for getting herself into political hot water.
> I agree that her comments in the House today were very insulting and ill
> advised.  Good chance that Minister Monsef will be shuffled out of that
> portfolio at the first available opportunity.
>
> Cheers,
> Sharon
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 7:36 PM, haberlin at gmail.com<mailto:habe
> rlin at gmail.com> <haberlin at gmail.com<mailto:haberlin at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi Sharon,
> Given the dismissive conduct of the Minister Monsef plus the Liberals
> members of the ERRE focusing on the Gallagher formula, I would say the
> referendum compromise is not politics.  Rather, it is the Liberal party
> saying NO to proportional representation.
> All that the Liberal members had to do is support PR and the referendum
> option would have been another example of Conservation voter suppression.
> From: fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org
> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org>] On Behalf Of Sharon
> Sommerville
> Sent: December 1, 2016 6:33 PM
> To: fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org<mailto:fvc-wat-announ
> ce at listserv.thinkers.org>; fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org<mailto:
> fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] The ERRE Report Recommends PR & A Referendum
> Hello FairVoting Friends,
> Today the ERRE committee tabled its report to Parliament.
> The committee recommended proportional representation!  And, as this is
> politics, the committee also recommended a referendum.
> Enormous thanks to the ERRE committee for their hard work & commitment on
> behalf of all of us as they tabled a majority report. Given the numerous
> perspectives around the table, that wasn't an easy task.
> Now, the report will go to Cabinet.  The Cabinet will make the final
> decision on what electoral reform will look like and we can expect
> legislation to be introduced in Parliament in the spring.  Until then,
> let's keep the pressure up on our MPs and our government.  If we want a
> fair electoral system, we need to speak up and speak out.  Write letters to
> the editor of the Record, the Post, the Chronicle, call, email or meet with
> your MP, talk to friends, neighbours and family, use social media to get
> out the message.  We would be happy to give a presentation on electoral
> systems to any group.  Just ask.
> We have an amazing opportunity to finally get a fair electoral system!
> Let's work together and make it happen!
> With thanks,
> Sharon
> for FVC-WR
> PS.,
> Here is the link to the report.
> http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?
> Language=e&Mode=1&Parl=42&Ses=1&DocId=8655791
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