[fvc-wat-disc] Fair Vote presentation

Bob Jonkman bjonkman at sobac.com
Mon Feb 15 20:29:16 EST 2016


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I'm happy with either slide.

- --Bob.


On 2016-02-15 07:45 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> Great! I'm perfectly happy with slide 49 ("Legal Stuff") without 
> having slide 50 ("Acknowledgements"), but having both are OK too.
> 
> The dedication (slide 49) is sufficient to declare you as the
> author. I think my original wording indicated "The author of this
> work, Byron Weber Becker waives all rights..." but Sean and I
> decided it's better to stick to the actual text provided by the
> Creative Commons Public Domain Dedication rather than making up our
> own.
> 
> --Bob.
> 
> 
> On 2016-02-15 07:38 PM, Byron Weber Becker wrote:
>> Here’s what the copyright slide looks like right now.  Is that
>> what you had in mind?
> 
>> Issues that I think still need to be addressed:
> 
>> * This is the only place that my name appears.  Is this
>> sufficient to establish that I have the right to waive these
>> rights? * We need to acknowledge the rest of the working group
>> someplace, somehow. It was a group effort, after all.
> 
> 
>> How do you feel about the second version, below?
> 
>> Byron
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> On Feb 12, 2016, at 12:04 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com 
>>> <mailto:bjonkman at sobac.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>> Hi all: After a long discussion last night, Sean and I have
>> agreed on the following text between the ===== marks for slide
>> 48, to be centered &c:
> 
>> ===== (Public Domain button)
> 
>> To the extent possible under law, Byron Weber Becker has waived 
>> all copyright and related or neighboring rights to this 
>> Presentation. This work is published from: Canada.
> 
>> http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ =====
> 
>> This text was generated from the Creative Commons CC0 license 
>> chooser athttps://creativecommons.org/choose/zero/resulting in
>> the output at
> 
>> https://creativecommons.org/choose/zero/results?license-class=zero&name=Byron+Weber+Becker&actor_href=http%3A%2F%2Ffairvotewrc.ca%2F&work_title=this+Presentation&work_jurisdiction=CA&confirm=confirm&understand=confirm&lang=en_US&field1=continue&waiver-affirm=affirm
>
>>  A larger Public Domain button can be downloaded from 
>> http://mirrors.creativecommons.org/presskit/buttons/88x31/png/cc-zero.png
>
>>  The presentation file itself can have embedded links for the 
>> author and the button, but we want to include the actual URL
>> text so that printed copies, video presentations, and any other
>> version that doesn't support clickable links can all access to
>> the Creative Commons text of the Public Domain Dedication.
> 
>> --Bob.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2016-02-08 11:04 PM, Sean B. Haberlin wrote:
>>>>> Bob,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Creative Commons provides the legal expertise that allows 
>>>>> people or organizations to share their material.   Your 
>>>>> statement “The Fair Vote Canada Waterloo Region Chapter is 
>>>>> not a legal entity (it's not a non-profit organization,
>>>>> not an incorporated entity; nothing, really...) and so it
>>>>> has no rights it can use to claim copyright that it can
>>>>> waive.” is moot and can be argued legally.  What I am
>>>>> saying is when we state that the Fair Vote Canada Waterloo
>>>>> Region Chapter created this presentation and grants
>>>>> copyright Creative Commons backs that statement.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> We do not have to be a “legal entity” to grant copyright
>>>>> when we apply the creative common license.  That is the
>>>>> whole point of Creative Commons and similar organizations –
>>>>> to make the internet free and accessible.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The licensor under as defined by Creative Commons is 
>>>>> "Licensor" means the individual, individuals, entity or 
>>>>> entities that offer(s) the Work under the terms of this 
>>>>> License.  Here is the direct link, it is under d in section
>>>>> 1 Definitions. 
>>>>> https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Byron Weber Becker [mailto:bwbecker at golden.net]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 9:31 PM To: Bob Jonkman 
>>>>> <bjonkman at sobac.com> Cc: Sharon Sommerville 
>>>>> <sharonsommerville at gmail.com>; Sean B. Haberlin 
>>>>> <haberlin at outlook.com>; Gordon Divitt <gdivitt at gmail.com>; 
>>>>> Holly Featherstone <hollyfeatherstone at gmail.com>; Fair
>>>>> Vote Waterloo Region Discussion 
>>>>> <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org> Subject: Re: Fair
>>>>> Vote presentation
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> So I finally figured out that CC0 is in the “Public
>>>>> Domain” menu while all the other stuff is in the “Licenses”
>>>>> menu.  If you start with Public Domain and then choose “Use
>>>>> this Tool” there is a small link labeled “begin”.  This
>>>>> takes you to a form at
>>>>> https://creativecommons.org/choose/zero/waiver where you
>>>>> can fill in some fields.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the fields is the URL where the work (will) be
>>>>> found. What will that be?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> After filling everything in and clicking “continue” you
>>>>> get to another page with some ominous warning text
>>>>> including "Once these rights are waived, you cannot reclaim
>>>>> them.”  and two buttons: “No, I do no waive” and “Yes, I
>>>>> waive”.  Does anyone know the actual effect of clicking the
>>>>> “Yes” button? Does it simply generate some text or does it
>>>>> register something somewhere?  I know the site says that it
>>>>> doesn’t but I’m wondering what all the warnings are about
>>>>> if clicking “yes” just generates some boilerplate text.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Second issue:  The logos are terribly small.  Are there 
>>>>> larger ones?  Is this the one you’re referring to, Bob?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Byron
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2016, at 5:39 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com
>>>>>  <mailto:bjonkman at sobac.com> > wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gordon Divitt wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> As long as anyone who uses it and makes changes keeps it 
>>>>> 'open' I
>>>>> 
>>>>> don't see a problem
>>>>> 
>>>>> That kind of license is a "Share Alike" license, and 
>>>>> definitely requires someone to "own" the copyright so that
>>>>> it can be licensed. The advantage of a Public Domain
>>>>> dedication (or waiving rights) is that people *can* use it
>>>>> in situations where attribution is not possible, for
>>>>> example as part of an aggregate work, or use by a
>>>>> commercial broadcaster For example, the CBC will not use
>>>>> Creative Commons licensed material that's restricted for BY
>>>>> (Attribution), SA (Share Alike), ND (No Derivatives
>>>>> allowed), or NC (No Commercial usage allowed).  A public
>>>>> domain dedication will ensure wider distribution of the
>>>>> work, removes any onus on us to protect or enforce a
>>>>> license, and it might not require someone to "own" the
>>>>> rights after those rights have been waived.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But the long and short of it is, the less restrictive the 
>>>>> license, the wider the distribution of the presentation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sean wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was under the impression this project was the work of
>>>>> Fair Vote Canada Waterloo Region Chapter (FVCWRC).
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The reason for naming Byron (or another person) as the 
>>>>> copyright holder is so that the copyright can be waived.
>>>>> The Fair Vote Canada Waterloo Region Chapter is not a
>>>>> legal entity (it's not a non-profit organization, not an 
>>>>> incorporated entity; nothing, really...) and so it has no 
>>>>> rights it can use to claim copyright that it can waive.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The wording on slide 48 seems OK to me. I would add one of 
>>>>> the CC0 badges, but having the link is good.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --Bob.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob Jonkman < <mailto:bjonkman at sobac.com>bjonkman at sobac.com
>>>>>  <mailto:bjonkman at sobac.com>> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC 
>>>>> Microcomputer Services 
>>>>> <http://sobac.com/sobac/>http://sobac.com/sobac/Software 
>>>>> --- Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting GnuPG 
>>>>> Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2016-02-08 05:13 PM, Gordon Divitt wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> As long as anyone who uses it and makes changes keeps it 
>>>>> 'open' I don't see a problem On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 5:07
>>>>> PM Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:sharonsommerville at gmail.com> 
>>>>> <mailto:sharonsommerville at gmail.com> > wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From my perspective, given that Byron undertook this on 
>>>>> behalf of FVC-WR & that the FVC logo is on every slide and 
>>>>> Byron did the lion's share of the work, I am comfortable 
>>>>> saying that Byron is the author without any legal 
>>>>> understanding of the consequences of that authorship, if
>>>>> it allows the work to be used by anyone who wants to as
>>>>> per Bob's recommendation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That having been said, would it be a better representation 
>>>>> but still keep the presentation in the public domain to
>>>>> say that Byron is the author on behalf of FVC-WR? Is it
>>>>> necessary to establish that caveat?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob, what are your thoughts on Sean's concern?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards all, S.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Byron Weber Becker 
>>>>> <bwbecker at golden.net 
>>>>> <mailto:bwbecker at golden.net><mailto:bwbecker at golden.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Was following Bob’s recommendations (more or less).  Back
>>>>> on Jan 24 he wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2) Byron asked for language for a copyright statement.  The
>>>>>  presentation *will* be covered by copyright, since
>>>>> Canadian law automatically applies copyright protections
>>>>> even if you don't want them. I'm not sure that the Fair
>>>>> Vote Canada Waterloo Region Chapter is an entity capable of
>>>>> holding a copyright, and I don't want the copyright to be
>>>>> transferred to Fair Vote Canada (while it's inconceivable,
>>>>> transferring copyright to FVC may prevent us from using,
>>>>> modifying or distributing it ourselves).  To allow the
>>>>> maximum use and widest distribution I'm going to suggest:
>>>>> 
>>>>> To the extent possible under law, the author of this 
>>>>> presentation, text and graphics, Byron Weber Becker has 
>>>>> waived all copyright and related or neighboring rights.
>>>>> This work can be copied, modified, and redistributed
>>>>> without permission or attribution.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Use one of the CC0 logos 
>>>>> fromhttp://www.fairvotewrc.ca/cc-0-88x31/ 
>>>>> orhttp://www.fairvotewrc.ca/cc-0-80x15/
>>>>> 
>>>>> More info about CC0:https://creativecommons.org/about/cc0/
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gordon raised the point that this allows the work to be
>>>>> used in ways that we don't approve of, but that's one of
>>>>> the dangers of education and knowledge.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The difference between what Bob wrote and what’s in the 
>>>>> presentation is that what’s in the presentation is sorta
>>>>> on the Creative Commons web site.  I couldn’t find anything
>>>>> that sorta looked like Bob’s text.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I must say, I found the CC web site to be pretty
>>>>> convoluted and confusing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Byron
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 8, 2016, at 4:50 PM, Sean B. Haberlin 
>>>>> <haberlin at outlook.com <mailto:haberlin at outlook.com> 
>>>>> <mailto:haberlin at outlook.com> > wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a problem with slide 48 – Legal Stuff.   “…Byron 
>>>>> Weber Becker, the author is this work…”  I was under the 
>>>>> impression this project was the work of Fair Vote Canada 
>>>>> Waterloo Region Chapter (FVCWRC).  I’m I wrong?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> *From:* Byron Weber Becker [mailto:bwbecker at golden.net 
>>>>> <bwbecker at golden.net 
>>>>> <mailto:bwbecker at golden.net><mailto:bwbecker at golden.net>
>>>>>> ] *Sent:*
>>>>> Sunday, February 7, 2016 10:17 PM *To:* Bob Jonkman 
>>>>> <bjonkman at sobac.com 
>>>>> <mailto:bjonkman at sobac.com><mailto:bjonkman at sobac.com> >; 
>>>>> Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:sharonsommerville at gmail.com> 
>>>>> <mailto:sharonsommerville at gmail.com> >; Sean B. Haberlin 
>>>>> <haberlin at outlook.com 
>>>>> <mailto:haberlin at outlook.com><mailto:haberlin at outlook.com>
>>>>> >; Gordon Divitt <gdivitt at gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:gdivitt at gmail.com><mailto:gdivitt at gmail.com> >; 
>>>>> Holly Featherstone <hollyfeatherstone at gmail.com 
>>>>> <mailto:hollyfeatherstone at gmail.com> 
>>>>> <mailto:hollyfeatherstone at gmail.com> > *Subject:* Fair Vote
>>>>>  presentation
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here’s my latest revision to the presentation.  I was more 
>>>>> careful in how I embedded graphics and stuff, so it’s now
>>>>> a much more manageable size.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Questions that remain in my mind:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. Slide 2:  We say FVC is “run by volunteers” but we do
>>>>> have some paid staff at the national level.  Does that
>>>>> statement need modification? 2. Slides 40 & 41:  Are the
>>>>> descriptions of MMP voting OK?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let me know…
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do we have presentations lined up?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Byron
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
> 
> 
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