[fvc-wat-disc] The Record column by Luisa D'Amato

Thu Jun 30 09:06:19 EDT 2016

Actually, Donald, that isn't true.  I think it is a great message!!

Because, "polls show that 62% of Canadians want a referendum" but how many
of those people want an education campaign FIRST?  Why don't you ask that
question, Mr. Pollster, because I'm sure Canada doesn't think the disgrace
that was the Brexit referendum is anything to follow.

And we can't make THAT a thing until we have people saying they want an
education component.

So, good job in getting that ball rolling.  :)

Jenn

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com>
wrote:

> OK I take it my response does not please our group ... my rationale for
> saying that a referendum would be OK with public education FIRST ... was to
> give the public education
>
> If I didn't respond that such a referendum would be OK then I didn't have
> a reason to exhibit in the letter what we would (and are) presenting to the
> public.
>
> On 29 June 2016 at 21:20, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>
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>> On 2016-06-29 08:32 PM, Laurel L. Russwurm wrote:
>> > Bob:
>> >
>> > Your response here needs to be posted as an article on the fvcwrc
>> > blog.
>> >
>> > Maybe illustrated with a copy of the FVC postcard picture and an
>> > invitation to people to come pick up a postcard and/or ask
>> > questions at the Fair Vote booth at the upcoming summer festivals.
>>
>> Done!
>>
>>  http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/on-referenda-consultations-and-postcards/
>>
>> The blog is also open for contributions by Fair Vote Waterloo members.
>> Sign up at https://www.fairvotewrc.ca/wp-login.php?action=register and
>> write something!
>>
>> - --Bob.
>>
>>
>> > On 06/29/2016 12:23 AM, Jennifer Ross wrote:
>> >> Yes, very disappointing.  I couldn't believe you guys were
>> >> tweeting it to make people read that piece of rubbish.  I'm sorry
>> >> you had to be the poster-boy for "but I did get a second
>> >> viewpoint" journalism.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com
>> >> <mailto:bjonkman at sobac.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> > I get quoted in today's column by Luisa D'Amato:
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/6743051-d-amato-despite-brexit-we-need-a-referendum-on-electoral-reform/
>> >
>> >>>
>> >
>> >> D’Amato: Despite Brexit, we need a referendum on electoral
>> >> reform
>> >
>> >> Bob Jonkman, co-chair of the Waterloo Region chapter of Fair
>> >> Vote Canada, says there is barely time to put a new system in
>> >> place, let alone ask people what they think of it
>> >
>> > Ms. D'Amato and I had a 20 minute conversation yesterday and
>> > that's only a brief and under-representative quote of what we spoke
>> > about. Among other things, I expressed my opinion that a referendum
>> > on Electoral Reform isn't necessary because:
>> >
>> > 1) Parliament (and provincial legislatures) may change the
>> > electoral system with a vote in parliament, as they have done for
>> > every other electoral reform issue such as giving the vote to
>> > women
>> >>> (1917-1918) or
>> > First Nations people (1960!)
>> >
>> > 2) A referendum on electoral reform is not a constitutional
>> > requirement. The only issue that affects consitutionality is seat
>> > allocation to the provinces, and that requirement is easily met by
>> >>> not
>> > extending electoral boundaries across provincial lines. (We didn't
>> > discuss it, but there have been many electoral boundary changes,
>> > notably before the 2015 election, which didn't go to a referendum
>> > and were perfectly constitutional)
>> >
>> > 3) That an effective and equal vote is a right, and that the
>> > First-Past-The-Post system violates that right, and rights issues
>> > are never decided by referenda.
>> >
>> > I spoke of the rarity of referenda in Canada, that the only
>> > national referenda have been on issues like prohibition (I thought
>> > that was in the 1930's, but it was in 1898), and the separation of
>> > Quebec (1992). Ms. D'Amato pointed out that we had a municipal
>> > referendum on fluoridation, and pointed out the many provincial
>> > referenda on electoral reform.
>> >
>> > We talked about the 2007 referendum in Ontario -- that example is
>> > a great reason to avoid referenda on these topics. Although the
>> >>> McGuinty
>> > Liberals made it an election promise in 2003, the Citizens'
>> > Assembly wasn't formed until 2006, leaving them only six months to
>> > become experts in voting systems and make a recommendation.
>> > Elections
>> >>> Ontario
>> > did not have enough information documents available; Fair Vote
>> > Waterloo members went door-to-door, and we ran out. Elections
>> > Ontario themselves were prohibited from giving out information on
>> > the
>> >>> proposed
>> > voting system, and when voters went to the polls in October most
>> > didn't even know there was a referendum on.
>> >
>> > I expressed dismay that it took the Federal Liberal government
>> > eight months to form the current All-party Parliamentary Committee,
>> > that
>> >>> the
>> > Committee's proposal is due on 1 December (and consultations need
>> > to wrapped up by 1 October), that the time it would take to move a
>> > bill through parliament could be as much as year, what with
>> > debate, multiple reading, and senate approval, and that Elections
>> > Canada will need a year to re-tool for a new electoral system.
>> >
>> > And that whole conversation was distilled down to the one
>> > sentence.
>> >
>> > --Bob.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> - --
>> >> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much
>> >> political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with
>> >> her Prime Minister.
>> >>
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-- 
No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in
the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
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