[fvc-wat-disc] The Record column by Luisa D'Amato

Thu Jun 30 15:56:36 EDT 2016

Hi Cathe,

Thanks for the great suggestion of a pot luck in July.  Anyone interested
in hosting?

Just to clarify Catherine's event, it is an educational event with a
possible call to action element. I didn't want attendees to think they need
to bring food.  It might put folks off attending, some won't bring food and
those that went to the effort might be offended by those that didn't.
 Asking our volunteers to feed 50 or so folks seems like a lot as well.

We should have some refreshments:  a couple of cheese plates, a couple of
fruit trays etc. but to ask people to bring food was more than we could
expect folks to do.

Wishing everyone a great Canada Day!

Sharon

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 2:54 PM, <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can we plan a pot luck dinner at someone's backyard in July for Fair Vote
> (even Lead Now, ) people and their main squeeze? Sharon was determined that
> the Catherine Fife event was a drop in with No Food. Networking is crucial
> to everything in my opinion. More commitment, more fun. More conversation.
> Etc. Please get back to me this aft.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
> *From: *Bob Jonkman
> *Sent: *Thursday, June 30, 2016 2:48 PM
> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] The Record column by Luisa D'Amato
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi Donald: I may disagree, but you may be right.
>
> Please do submit your letter to The Record; if it gets published and
> edited your text "as submitted" can be included on the Mirror page of
> our media collection at http://fairvotewrc.ca/media . If it doesn't
> get printed at all then you should post it as an article on the blog.
> In fact, you should post it as an article on the blog regardless!
>
> - --Bob
>
>
> On 2016-06-30 08:25 AM, Donald Fraser wrote:
> > It was at the top of this Email chain ... but here it is again
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Editor,
> >
> >
> >
> > Re: Despite Brexit, we need a referendum on electoral reform_Luisa
> > D’Amato_June 28,2016
> >
> >
> >
> > Philosophically the public should be consulted on this issue, but
> > not without widespread public education about Proportional
> > Representation (PR). First educate the public, then hold a vote.
> >
> >
> > There have been three provincial referenda on PR in Canada
> > (British Columbia May 17, 2005, Prince Edward Island Nov 28, 2005,
> > Ontario Oct 10, 2007). All three failed, not because PR benefits
> > were rejected but because the public was not informed properly.
> >
> >
> >
> > Without country-wide public education, a referendum should not be
> > held. Rather, the decision should be left to the committee based on
> > public input, because an uniformed referendum vote will most
> > certainly reject change no matter how beneficial it may be.
> >
> >
> >
> > Public education should consist of 3 parts.
> >
> >
> >
> > First, the ballot should be shown. Most voters fear that voting
> > will be confusing. A Mixed Member PR ballot consists of space to
> > vote for the local candidate as we do now and then another space to
> > vote for the party of choice (which can differ from the party of
> > the chosen candidate if the voter wishes) ... simple.
> >
> >
> >
> > Second, voters should be encouraged by the major benefits of PR.
> >
> > · Every vote counts toward giving the voter's party of
> > choice the same percentage of seats in Ottawa as the party received
> > in national vote count.
> >
> > · Strategic voting which can produce false majorities (a
> > majority of seats without a majority percentage of votes) becomes
> > unnecessary. A citizen can vote for the party that most matches
> > his/her ideals and be assured that that party will get its fair
> > share of seats.
> >
> > · Parties can present their true platforms instead of having
> > to compromise them to get elected.
> >
> >
> >
> > Third, voters should be encouraged by learning the major countries
> > that use PR successfully such as Germany, Denmark, Japan,
> > Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Republic of Ireland, Scotland,
> > Sweden, Wales and many more.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yours Truly,
> >
> > Donald A Fraser,
> >
> > 184 Forsyth Drive,
> >
> > Waterloo, Ontario,
> >
> > N2L1A2,
> >
> > 519-576-9210
> >
> > On 30 June 2016 at 05:22, Sharon Sommerville
> > <sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry Donald, I missed your response. Could you forward it to
> >> me?
> >>
> >> With thanks, Sharon
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Donald Fraser
> >> <donaldafraser at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> OK I take it my response does not please our group ... my
> >>> rationale for saying that a referendum would be OK with public
> >>> education FIRST ... was to give the public education
> >>>
> >>> If I didn't respond that such a referendum would be OK then I
> >>> didn't have a reason to exhibit in the letter what we would
> >>> (and are) presenting to the public.
> >>>
> >>> On 29 June 2016 at 21:20, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> > On 2016-06-29 08:32 PM, Laurel L. Russwurm wrote:
> >>>>>> Bob:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your response here needs to be posted as an article on
> >>>>>> the fvcwrc blog.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Maybe illustrated with a copy of the FVC postcard picture
> >>>>>> and an invitation to people to come pick up a postcard
> >>>>>> and/or ask questions at the Fair Vote booth at the
> >>>>>> upcoming summer festivals.
> >
> > Done!
> >
> > http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/on-referenda-consultations-and-postcards/
> >
> > The blog is also open for contributions by Fair Vote Waterloo
> > members. Sign up at
> > https://www.fairvotewrc.ca/wp-login.php?action=register and write
> > something!
> >
> > --Bob.
> >
> >
> >>>>>> On 06/29/2016 12:23 AM, Jennifer Ross wrote:
> >>>>>>> Yes, very disappointing. I couldn't believe you guys
> >>>>>>> were tweeting it to make people read that piece of
> >>>>>>> rubbish. I'm sorry you had to be the poster-boy for
> >>>>>>> "but I did get a second viewpoint" journalism.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Bob Jonkman
> >>>>>>> <bjonkman at sobac.com <mailto:bjonkman at sobac.com>>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I get quoted in today's column by Luisa D'Amato:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >
> http://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/6743051-d-amato-despite-brexit-we-need-a-referendum-on-electoral-reform/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >
> D’Amato: Despite Brexit, we need a referendum on electoral
> >>>>>>> reform
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Bob Jonkman, co-chair of the Waterloo Region chapter of
> >>>>>>> Fair Vote Canada, says there is barely time to put a
> >>>>>>> new system in place, let alone ask people what they
> >>>>>>> think of it
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ms. D'Amato and I had a 20 minute conversation yesterday
> >>>>>> and that's only a brief and under-representative quote of
> >>>>>> what we spoke about. Among other things, I expressed my
> >>>>>> opinion that a referendum on Electoral Reform isn't
> >>>>>> necessary because:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1) Parliament (and provincial legislatures) may change
> >>>>>> the electoral system with a vote in parliament, as they
> >>>>>> have done for every other electoral reform issue such as
> >>>>>> giving the vote to women
> >>>>>>>> (1917-1918) or
> >>>>>> First Nations people (1960!)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2) A referendum on electoral reform is not a
> >>>>>> constitutional requirement. The only issue that affects
> >>>>>> consitutionality is seat allocation to the provinces, and
> >>>>>> that requirement is easily met by
> >>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>> extending electoral boundaries across provincial lines.
> >>>>>> (We didn't discuss it, but there have been many electoral
> >>>>>> boundary changes, notably before the 2015 election, which
> >>>>>> didn't go to a referendum and were perfectly
> >>>>>> constitutional)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 3) That an effective and equal vote is a right, and that
> >>>>>> the First-Past-The-Post system violates that right, and
> >>>>>> rights issues are never decided by referenda.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I spoke of the rarity of referenda in Canada, that the
> >>>>>> only national referenda have been on issues like
> >>>>>> prohibition (I thought that was in the 1930's, but it was
> >>>>>> in 1898), and the separation of Quebec (1992). Ms.
> >>>>>> D'Amato pointed out that we had a municipal referendum on
> >>>>>> fluoridation, and pointed out the many provincial
> >>>>>> referenda on electoral reform.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We talked about the 2007 referendum in Ontario -- that
> >>>>>> example is a great reason to avoid referenda on these
> >>>>>> topics. Although the
> >>>>>>>> McGuinty
> >>>>>> Liberals made it an election promise in 2003, the
> >>>>>> Citizens' Assembly wasn't formed until 2006, leaving them
> >>>>>> only six months to become experts in voting systems and
> >>>>>> make a recommendation. Elections
> >>>>>>>> Ontario
> >>>>>> did not have enough information documents available; Fair
> >>>>>> Vote Waterloo members went door-to-door, and we ran out.
> >>>>>> Elections Ontario themselves were prohibited from giving
> >>>>>> out information on the
> >>>>>>>> proposed
> >>>>>> voting system, and when voters went to the polls in
> >>>>>> October most didn't even know there was a referendum on.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I expressed dismay that it took the Federal Liberal
> >>>>>> government eight months to form the current All-party
> >>>>>> Parliamentary Committee, that
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>> Committee's proposal is due on 1 December (and
> >>>>>> consultations need to wrapped up by 1 October), that the
> >>>>>> time it would take to move a bill through parliament
> >>>>>> could be as much as year, what with debate, multiple
> >>>>>> reading, and senate approval, and that Elections Canada
> >>>>>> will need a year to re-tool for a new electoral system.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And that whole conversation was distilled down to the
> >>>>>> one sentence.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --Bob.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ This is
> >>>>>>> the fvc-wat-disc mailing list Post a message:
> >>>>>>> fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> >>>>>>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> >>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> >>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list Post a message:
> >>>> fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org Unsubscribe:
> >>>>
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list Post a message:
> >>> fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org Unsubscribe:
> >>>
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list Post a message:
> >> fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org Unsubscribe:
> >>
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________ This is the
> > fvc-wat-disc mailing list Post a message:
> > fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org Unsubscribe:
> >
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
> >
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAld1aQ4ACgkQuRKJsNLM5er5qQCg0WvbgQsiqo1O4vl+169rBxlp
> r1YAnRI5WHQUOYRLhe4gb7Vq11EurjFo
> =nhE7
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe:
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe:
> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.thinkers.org/pipermail/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org/attachments/20160630/d40fb1e3/attachment-0002.htm>