[fvc-wat-disc] fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 92, Issue 8

Tue Nov 15 13:58:24 EST 2016

Re the MPs' report to ERRE on Kitchener town hall:

Your web site asks us to respond but I couldn't find any place to. Can it
be made clearer?

The report seems accurate to me EXCEPT for the misleading way the term
"alternative vote" was used.  To readers it just sounds like "an
alternative voting system" but to ERRE it would mean a specific system,
that as we know isn't proportional, and wasn't mentioned at the town hall.

Sounded more like a careless Grade 5 essay than deception - but given the
stakes, the seeming carelessness may well be designed to cloak the sleight
of hand.

Eleanor

On 10 Nov 2016 12:00, <fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10
>       November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
>       (Jennifer Ross)
>    2. Re: US lack of PR let Trump win: Clinton won more votes than
>       Trump,    he won more Electoral College seats and hence the
>       presidency (cdcampbell9 at gmail.com)
>    3. Re: [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10
>       November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
>       (Cathy.scottfree at gmail.com)
>    4. Re: [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday,      10
>       November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
>       (haberlin at gmail.com)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com>
> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Cc: Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements <
> fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 12:41:22 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on
> Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
> See you there!
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 1:47 AM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who responded to the poll! It seems that a sense of
>> urgency won the day; the first available date of Thursday, 10 November
>> 2016 was chosen to have our Strategy Meeting.
>>
>> *What*: Fair Vote Waterloo Strategy Meeting, Fall 2016
>> *When*: Thursday, 10 November 2016 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
>> *Where*: Sharon Sommerville's dining room
>> *Location*: 85 Westmount Road South, Waterloo, Ontario
>> *Map*: http://osm.org/go/ZXna8VEB--?m=
>>
>> Thanks to Sharon Sommerville for hosting! Street parking is available
>> on Douglas Street.
>>
>> See you on Thursday!
>>
>> Bob Jonkman,
>> Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>>
>>
>> Poll: http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>>
>> Event:
>> http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/event/fair-vote-waterloo-strategy-meeting/
>>
>>
>> On 2016-11-03 06:20 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
>> > Hello Fair Voters:  There have been some alarming comments from
>> > both Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister of Democratic
>> > Institutions Maryam Monsef that Canadians no longer need Electoral
>> > Reform because the Liberals have formed the government.
>> >
>> > There’s an urgent need to make a coordinated effort to address the
>> > Liberals’ backsliding on their election promise of electoral
>> > reform. We talked about this at the previous Discussion Night, and
>> > had scheduled a Strategy Meeting for Wednesday, 23 November 2016.
>> > Unfortunately, a significant number of people can’t make it for
>> > that date, and because of the urgency of this issue an earlier date
>> > was requested.
>> >
>> > Please use this poll to choose a date:
>> >
>> > http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>> >
>> > If you can’t complete the poll you can e-mail me at
>> > bjonkman at sobac.com I’ll pick the date on Tuesday, 8 November 2016
>> > based on the plurality of the poll results.
>> >
>> > At the meeting we will discuss ways to combat the Liberals’
>> > misperception of Canadians’ overwhelming support for Electoral
>> > Reform:
>> >
>> > * Do we have a letter writing campaign to target Liberal MPs? * The
>> > ERRE committee? * Media? * Do we make phone calls? * Have
>> > individual meetings with MPs? * Have protest rallies?
>> >
>> > Thank you! –Bob Jonkman, Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>> >
>> > - From the Discussion Mailing List:
>> >
>> >> It is critical that we create a powerful response that sends a
>> >> clear message about how upset & angry we are at this betrayal.
>> >> And how it will impact the next election!
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2
>> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>>
>> iEYEARECAAYFAlgixocACgkQuRKJsNLM5erguwCg6gTlyxeZk2pXsKfp0LxjyVqf
>> cZ0AoPO3D6iNToViETjp1bKfXMtULLpb
>> =h9yg
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-announ
>> ce_listserv.thinkers.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
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>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l
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>
>
>
> --
> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in
> the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: cdcampbell9 at gmail.com
> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org, Fair Vote Waterloo Region
> Announcements <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2016 10:35:10 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] US lack of PR let Trump win: Clinton won more
> votes than Trump, he won more Electoral College seats and hence the
> presidency
> At Sharon's  house tonight, discuss persuading federal Liberals that
> without PR, more voters voted for Clinton but got Trump. When the Liberals
> get defeated in the future it will be by the Conservatives which will
> replace progressive Liberal achievements with mean spirited Conservative
> ones.
>
> TttSent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
> *From: *Bob Jonkman
> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 9, 2016 1:49 AM
> *To: *Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements
> *Reply To: *fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> *Subject: *[fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on
> Thursday, 10
>
> November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Thanks to everyone who responded to the poll! It seems that a sense of
> urgency won the day; the first available date of Thursday, 10 November
> 2016 was chosen to have our Strategy Meeting.
>
> *What*: Fair Vote Waterloo Strategy Meeting, Fall 2016
> *When*: Thursday, 10 November 2016 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
> *Where*: Sharon Sommerville's dining room
> *Location*: 85 Westmount Road South, Waterloo, Ontario
> *Map*: http://osm.org/go/ZXna8VEB--?m=
>
> Thanks to Sharon Sommerville for hosting! Street parking is available
> on Douglas Street.
>
> See you on Thursday!
>
> Bob Jonkman,
> Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>
>
> Poll: http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>
> Event:
> http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/event/fair-vote-waterloo-strategy-meeting/
>
>
> On 2016-11-03 06:20 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> > Hello Fair Voters: There have been some alarming comments from
> > both Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister of Democratic
> > Institutions Maryam Monsef that Canadians no longer need Electoral
> > Reform because the Liberals have formed the government.
> >
> > There’s an urgent need to make a coordinated effort to address the
> > Liberals’ backsliding on their election promise of electoral
> > reform. We talked about this at the previous Discussion Night, and
> > had scheduled a Strategy Meeting for Wednesday, 23 November 2016.
> > Unfortunately, a significant number of people can’t make it for
> > that date, and because of the urgency of this issue an earlier date
> > was requested.
> >
> > Please use this poll to choose a date:
> >
> > http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
> >
> > If you can’t complete the poll you can e-mail me at
> > bjonkman at sobac.com I’ll pick the date on Tuesday, 8 November 2016
> > based on the plurality of the poll results.
> >
> > At the meeting we will discuss ways to combat the Liberals’
> > misperception of Canadians’ overwhelming support for Electoral
> > Reform:
> >
> > * Do we have a letter writing campaign to target Liberal MPs? * The
> > ERRE committee? * Media? * Do we make phone calls? * Have
> > individual meetings with MPs? * Have protest rallies?
> >
> > Thank you! –Bob Jonkman, Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
> >
> > - From the Discussion Mailing List:
> >
> >> It is critical that we create a powerful response that sends a
> >> clear message about how upset & angry we are at this betrayal.
> >> And how it will impact the next election!
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlgixocACgkQuRKJsNLM5erguwCg6gTlyxeZk2pXsKfp0LxjyVqf
> cZ0AoPO3D6iNToViETjp1bKfXMtULLpb
> =h9yg
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-
> announce_listserv.thinkers.org
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_
> listserv.thinkers.org
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Cathy.scottfree at gmail.com" <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com>
> To: Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com>, FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <
> fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Cc: Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements <
> fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2016 15:17:50 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on
> Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
> I'll  be at the strategy meeting but a bit late.
> Cathy
>
>
>
> Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com>
> Date: 11-09-2016 12:41 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Cc: Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.
> thinkers.org>
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on
> Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
>
> See you there!
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 1:47 AM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who responded to the poll! It seems that a sense of
>> urgency won the day; the first available date of Thursday, 10 November
>> 2016 was chosen to have our Strategy Meeting.
>>
>> *What*: Fair Vote Waterloo Strategy Meeting, Fall 2016
>> *When*: Thursday, 10 November 2016 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
>> *Where*: Sharon Sommerville's dining room
>> *Location*: 85 Westmount Road South, Waterloo, Ontario
>> *Map*: http://osm.org/go/ZXna8VEB--?m=
>>
>> Thanks to Sharon Sommerville for hosting! Street parking is available
>> on Douglas Street.
>>
>> See you on Thursday!
>>
>> Bob Jonkman,
>> Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>>
>>
>> Poll: http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>>
>> Event:
>> http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/event/fair-vote-waterloo-strategy-meeting/
>>
>>
>> On 2016-11-03 06:20 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
>> > Hello Fair Voters:  There have been some alarming comments from
>> > both Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister of Democratic
>> > Institutions Maryam Monsef that Canadians no longer need Electoral
>> > Reform because the Liberals have formed the government.
>> >
>> > There’s an urgent need to make a coordinated effort to address the
>> > Liberals’ backsliding on their election promise of electoral
>> > reform. We talked about this at the previous Discussion Night, and
>> > had scheduled a Strategy Meeting for Wednesday, 23 November 2016.
>> > Unfortunately, a significant number of people can’t make it for
>> > that date, and because of the urgency of this issue an earlier date
>> > was requested.
>> >
>> > Please use this poll to choose a date:
>> >
>> > http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>> >
>> > If you can’t complete the poll you can e-mail me at
>> > bjonkman at sobac.com I’ll pick the date on Tuesday, 8 November 2016
>> > based on the plurality of the poll results.
>> >
>> > At the meeting we will discuss ways to combat the Liberals’
>> > misperception of Canadians’ overwhelming support for Electoral
>> > Reform:
>> >
>> > * Do we have a letter writing campaign to target Liberal MPs? * The
>> > ERRE committee? * Media? * Do we make phone calls? * Have
>> > individual meetings with MPs? * Have protest rallies?
>> >
>> > Thank you! –Bob Jonkman, Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>> >
>> > - From the Discussion Mailing List:
>> >
>> >> It is critical that we create a powerful response that sends a
>> >> clear message about how upset & angry we are at this betrayal.
>> >> And how it will impact the next election!
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2
>> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>>
>> iEYEARECAAYFAlgixocACgkQuRKJsNLM5erguwCg6gTlyxeZk2pXsKfp0LxjyVqf
>> cZ0AoPO3D6iNToViETjp1bKfXMtULLpb
>> =h9yg
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-announ
>> ce_listserv.thinkers.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l
>> istserv.thinkers.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in
> the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "haberlin at gmail.com" <haberlin at gmail.com>
> To: <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>, "'Fair Vote Waterloo Region
> Announcements'" <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 11:41:08 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on
> Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
> I will be there
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] On
> Behalf Of Bob Jonkman
> Sent: November 9, 2016 1:48 AM
> To: Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.
> thinkers.org>
> Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday,
> 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Thanks to everyone who responded to the poll! It seems that a sense of
> urgency won the day; the first available date of Thursday, 10 November
> 2016 was chosen to have our Strategy Meeting.
>
> *What*: Fair Vote Waterloo Strategy Meeting, Fall 2016
> *When*: Thursday, 10 November 2016 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
> *Where*: Sharon Sommerville's dining room
> *Location*: 85 Westmount Road South, Waterloo, Ontario
> *Map*: http://osm.org/go/ZXna8VEB--?m=
>
> Thanks to Sharon Sommerville for hosting! Street parking is available on
> Douglas Street.
>
> See you on Thursday!
>
> Bob Jonkman,
> Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>
>
> Poll: http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>
> Event:
> http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/event/fair-vote-waterloo-strategy-meeting/
>
>
> On 2016-11-03 06:20 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> > Hello Fair Voters:  There have been some alarming comments from both
> > Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister of Democratic Institutions
> > Maryam Monsef that Canadians no longer need Electoral Reform because
> > the Liberals have formed the government.
> >
> > There’s an urgent need to make a coordinated effort to address the
> > Liberals’ backsliding on their election promise of electoral reform.
> > We talked about this at the previous Discussion Night, and had
> > scheduled a Strategy Meeting for Wednesday, 23 November 2016.
> > Unfortunately, a significant number of people can’t make it for that
> > date, and because of the urgency of this issue an earlier date was
> > requested.
> >
> > Please use this poll to choose a date:
> >
> > http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
> >
> > If you can’t complete the poll you can e-mail me at bjonkman at sobac.com
> > I’ll pick the date on Tuesday, 8 November 2016 based on the plurality
> > of the poll results.
> >
> > At the meeting we will discuss ways to combat the Liberals’
> > misperception of Canadians’ overwhelming support for Electoral
> > Reform:
> >
> > * Do we have a letter writing campaign to target Liberal MPs? * The
> > ERRE committee? * Media? * Do we make phone calls? * Have individual
> > meetings with MPs? * Have protest rallies?
> >
> > Thank you! –Bob Jonkman, Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
> >
> > - From the Discussion Mailing List:
> >
> >> It is critical that we create a powerful response that sends a clear
> >> message about how upset & angry we are at this betrayal.
> >> And how it will impact the next election!
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlgixocACgkQuRKJsNLM5erguwCg6gTlyxeZk2pXsKfp0LxjyVqf
> cZ0AoPO3D6iNToViETjp1bKfXMtULLpb
> =h9yg
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-
> announce_listserv.thinkers.org
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_
> listserv.thinkers.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
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>
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