[fvc-wat-disc] fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 92, Issue 8
Dave Arthur
arthurd23 at bell.net
Tue Nov 15 15:00:14 EST 2016
There were a few other inaccuracies.
They said there was objection to use of list candidates but didn’t differentiate between closed and open.
It’s probably fair to say that many objected to closed lists where the selection of candidates was controlled more by the party or leader.
Open lists give voters more control, often by ranking.
The report also said people objected to multiple members per riding.
I don’t remember that to have been prevalent.
However, both MMP and STV use multiple members per riding.
MMP does so along with single member ridings.
The report would seem to use the multiple member objection as objection to PR systems.
The use of the term alternative vote was also indeed misleading.
Dave A
From: Eleanor Grant
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 1:58 PM
To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 92, Issue 8
Re the MPs' report to ERRE on Kitchener town hall:
Your web site asks us to respond but I couldn't find any place to. Can it be made clearer?
The report seems accurate to me EXCEPT for the misleading way the term "alternative vote" was used. To readers it just sounds like "an alternative voting system" but to ERRE it would mean a specific system, that as we know isn't proportional, and wasn't mentioned at the town hall.
Sounded more like a careless Grade 5 essay than deception - but given the stakes, the seeming carelessness may well be designed to cloak the sleight of hand.
Eleanor
On 10 Nov 2016 12:00, <fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org> wrote:
Send fvc-wat-disc mailing list submissions to
fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
fvc-wat-disc-owner at listserv.thinkers.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of fvc-wat-disc digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10
November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
(Jennifer Ross)
2. Re: US lack of PR let Trump win: Clinton won more votes than
Trump, he won more Electoral College seats and hence the
presidency (cdcampbell9 at gmail.com)
3. Re: [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10
November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
(Cathy.scottfree at gmail.com)
4. Re: [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10
November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
(haberlin at gmail.com)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com>
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
Cc: Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 12:41:22 -0500
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
See you there!
On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 1:47 AM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Thanks to everyone who responded to the poll! It seems that a sense of
urgency won the day; the first available date of Thursday, 10 November
2016 was chosen to have our Strategy Meeting.
*What*: Fair Vote Waterloo Strategy Meeting, Fall 2016
*When*: Thursday, 10 November 2016 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
*Where*: Sharon Sommerville's dining room
*Location*: 85 Westmount Road South, Waterloo, Ontario
*Map*: http://osm.org/go/ZXna8VEB--?m=
Thanks to Sharon Sommerville for hosting! Street parking is available
on Douglas Street.
See you on Thursday!
Bob Jonkman,
Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
Poll: http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
Event:
http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/event/fair-vote-waterloo-strategy-meeting/
On 2016-11-03 06:20 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> Hello Fair Voters: There have been some alarming comments from
> both Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister of Democratic
> Institutions Maryam Monsef that Canadians no longer need Electoral
> Reform because the Liberals have formed the government.
>
> There’s an urgent need to make a coordinated effort to address the
> Liberals’ backsliding on their election promise of electoral
> reform. We talked about this at the previous Discussion Night, and
> had scheduled a Strategy Meeting for Wednesday, 23 November 2016.
> Unfortunately, a significant number of people can’t make it for
> that date, and because of the urgency of this issue an earlier date
> was requested.
>
> Please use this poll to choose a date:
>
> http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>
> If you can’t complete the poll you can e-mail me at
> bjonkman at sobac.com I’ll pick the date on Tuesday, 8 November 2016
> based on the plurality of the poll results.
>
> At the meeting we will discuss ways to combat the Liberals’
> misperception of Canadians’ overwhelming support for Electoral
> Reform:
>
> * Do we have a letter writing campaign to target Liberal MPs? * The
> ERRE committee? * Media? * Do we make phone calls? * Have
> individual meetings with MPs? * Have protest rallies?
>
> Thank you! –Bob Jonkman, Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>
> - From the Discussion Mailing List:
>
>> It is critical that we create a powerful response that sends a
>> clear message about how upset & angry we are at this betrayal.
>> And how it will impact the next election!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
iEYEARECAAYFAlgixocACgkQuRKJsNLM5erguwCg6gTlyxeZk2pXsKfp0LxjyVqf
cZ0AoPO3D6iNToViETjp1bKfXMtULLpb
=h9yg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-announce_listserv.thinkers.org
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
--
No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: cdcampbell9 at gmail.com
To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org, Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
Cc:
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2016 10:35:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] US lack of PR let Trump win: Clinton won more votes than Trump, he won more Electoral College seats and hence the presidency
At Sharon's house tonight, discuss persuading federal Liberals that without PR, more voters voted for Clinton but got Trump. When the Liberals get defeated in the future it will be by the Conservatives which will replace progressive Liberal achievements with mean spirited Conservative ones.
TttSent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
From: Bob Jonkman
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 1:49 AM
To: Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements
Reply To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10
November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Thanks to everyone who responded to the poll! It seems that a sense of
urgency won the day; the first available date of Thursday, 10 November
2016 was chosen to have our Strategy Meeting.
*What*: Fair Vote Waterloo Strategy Meeting, Fall 2016
*When*: Thursday, 10 November 2016 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
*Where*: Sharon Sommerville's dining room
*Location*: 85 Westmount Road South, Waterloo, Ontario
*Map*: http://osm.org/go/ZXna8VEB--?m=
Thanks to Sharon Sommerville for hosting! Street parking is available
on Douglas Street.
See you on Thursday!
Bob Jonkman,
Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
Poll: http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
Event:
http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/event/fair-vote-waterloo-strategy-meeting/
On 2016-11-03 06:20 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> Hello Fair Voters: There have been some alarming comments from
> both Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister of Democratic
> Institutions Maryam Monsef that Canadians no longer need Electoral
> Reform because the Liberals have formed the government.
>
> There’s an urgent need to make a coordinated effort to address the
> Liberals’ backsliding on their election promise of electoral
> reform. We talked about this at the previous Discussion Night, and
> had scheduled a Strategy Meeting for Wednesday, 23 November 2016.
> Unfortunately, a significant number of people can’t make it for
> that date, and because of the urgency of this issue an earlier date
> was requested.
>
> Please use this poll to choose a date:
>
> http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>
> If you can’t complete the poll you can e-mail me at
> bjonkman at sobac.com I’ll pick the date on Tuesday, 8 November 2016
> based on the plurality of the poll results.
>
> At the meeting we will discuss ways to combat the Liberals’
> misperception of Canadians’ overwhelming support for Electoral
> Reform:
>
> * Do we have a letter writing campaign to target Liberal MPs? * The
> ERRE committee? * Media? * Do we make phone calls? * Have
> individual meetings with MPs? * Have protest rallies?
>
> Thank you! –Bob Jonkman, Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>
> - From the Discussion Mailing List:
>
>> It is critical that we create a powerful response that sends a
>> clear message about how upset & angry we are at this betrayal.
>> And how it will impact the next election!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
iEYEARECAAYFAlgixocACgkQuRKJsNLM5erguwCg6gTlyxeZk2pXsKfp0LxjyVqf
cZ0AoPO3D6iNToViETjp1bKfXMtULLpb
=h9yg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-announce_listserv.thinkers.org
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Cathy.scottfree at gmail.com" <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com>
To: Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com>, FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
Cc: Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2016 15:17:50 -0500
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
I'll be at the strategy meeting but a bit late.
Cathy
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
-------- Original message --------
From: Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com>
Date: 11-09-2016 12:41 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
Cc: Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
See you there!
On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 1:47 AM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Thanks to everyone who responded to the poll! It seems that a sense of
urgency won the day; the first available date of Thursday, 10 November
2016 was chosen to have our Strategy Meeting.
*What*: Fair Vote Waterloo Strategy Meeting, Fall 2016
*When*: Thursday, 10 November 2016 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
*Where*: Sharon Sommerville's dining room
*Location*: 85 Westmount Road South, Waterloo, Ontario
*Map*: http://osm.org/go/ZXna8VEB--?m=
Thanks to Sharon Sommerville for hosting! Street parking is available
on Douglas Street.
See you on Thursday!
Bob Jonkman,
Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
Poll: http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
Event:
http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/event/fair-vote-waterloo-strategy-meeting/
On 2016-11-03 06:20 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> Hello Fair Voters: There have been some alarming comments from
> both Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister of Democratic
> Institutions Maryam Monsef that Canadians no longer need Electoral
> Reform because the Liberals have formed the government.
>
> There’s an urgent need to make a coordinated effort to address the
> Liberals’ backsliding on their election promise of electoral
> reform. We talked about this at the previous Discussion Night, and
> had scheduled a Strategy Meeting for Wednesday, 23 November 2016.
> Unfortunately, a significant number of people can’t make it for
> that date, and because of the urgency of this issue an earlier date
> was requested.
>
> Please use this poll to choose a date:
>
> http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>
> If you can’t complete the poll you can e-mail me at
> bjonkman at sobac.com I’ll pick the date on Tuesday, 8 November 2016
> based on the plurality of the poll results.
>
> At the meeting we will discuss ways to combat the Liberals’
> misperception of Canadians’ overwhelming support for Electoral
> Reform:
>
> * Do we have a letter writing campaign to target Liberal MPs? * The
> ERRE committee? * Media? * Do we make phone calls? * Have
> individual meetings with MPs? * Have protest rallies?
>
> Thank you! –Bob Jonkman, Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>
> - From the Discussion Mailing List:
>
>> It is critical that we create a powerful response that sends a
>> clear message about how upset & angry we are at this betrayal.
>> And how it will impact the next election!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
iEYEARECAAYFAlgixocACgkQuRKJsNLM5erguwCg6gTlyxeZk2pXsKfp0LxjyVqf
cZ0AoPO3D6iNToViETjp1bKfXMtULLpb
=h9yg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-announce_listserv.thinkers.org
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
--
No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "haberlin at gmail.com" <haberlin at gmail.com>
To: <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>, "'Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements'" <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
Cc:
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 11:41:08 -0500
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
I will be there
-----Original Message-----
From: fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] On Behalf Of Bob Jonkman
Sent: November 9, 2016 1:48 AM
To: Fair Vote Waterloo Region Announcements <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Strategy Meeting on Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 7:00pm in Sharon Sommerville's dining room
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Thanks to everyone who responded to the poll! It seems that a sense of urgency won the day; the first available date of Thursday, 10 November
2016 was chosen to have our Strategy Meeting.
*What*: Fair Vote Waterloo Strategy Meeting, Fall 2016
*When*: Thursday, 10 November 2016 from 7:00pm to 9:00pm
*Where*: Sharon Sommerville's dining room
*Location*: 85 Westmount Road South, Waterloo, Ontario
*Map*: http://osm.org/go/ZXna8VEB--?m=
Thanks to Sharon Sommerville for hosting! Street parking is available on Douglas Street.
See you on Thursday!
Bob Jonkman,
Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
Poll: http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
Event:
http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/event/fair-vote-waterloo-strategy-meeting/
On 2016-11-03 06:20 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> Hello Fair Voters: There have been some alarming comments from both
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister of Democratic Institutions
> Maryam Monsef that Canadians no longer need Electoral Reform because
> the Liberals have formed the government.
>
> There’s an urgent need to make a coordinated effort to address the
> Liberals’ backsliding on their election promise of electoral reform.
> We talked about this at the previous Discussion Night, and had
> scheduled a Strategy Meeting for Wednesday, 23 November 2016.
> Unfortunately, a significant number of people can’t make it for that
> date, and because of the urgency of this issue an earlier date was
> requested.
>
> Please use this poll to choose a date:
>
> http://www.fairvotewrc.ca/choose-a-date-for-a-strategy-meeting/
>
> If you can’t complete the poll you can e-mail me at bjonkman at sobac.com
> I’ll pick the date on Tuesday, 8 November 2016 based on the plurality
> of the poll results.
>
> At the meeting we will discuss ways to combat the Liberals’
> misperception of Canadians’ overwhelming support for Electoral
> Reform:
>
> * Do we have a letter writing campaign to target Liberal MPs? * The
> ERRE committee? * Media? * Do we make phone calls? * Have individual
> meetings with MPs? * Have protest rallies?
>
> Thank you! –Bob Jonkman, Co-Chair, Fair Vote Waterloo
>
> - From the Discussion Mailing List:
>
>> It is critical that we create a powerful response that sends a clear
>> message about how upset & angry we are at this betrayal.
>> And how it will impact the next election!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
iEYEARECAAYFAlgixocACgkQuRKJsNLM5erguwCg6gTlyxeZk2pXsKfp0LxjyVqf
cZ0AoPO3D6iNToViETjp1bKfXMtULLpb
=h9yg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-announce_listserv.thinkers.org
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.thinkers.org/pipermail/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org/attachments/20161115/fa435565/attachment-0002.htm>
More information about the fvc-wat-disc
mailing list