[fvc-wat-disc] Referendum (Re: fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 92, Issue 20)

Thu Nov 17 00:42:28 EST 2016

Notable lack of leadership on this file, Jennifer Ditchburn quoted Mulroney
in a recent iPolitics article:

"Leadership is the process, not only of foreseeing the need for change, but
of making the case for change.  Leadership does not consist of imposing
unpopular ideas on the public but of making unpopular ideas acceptable to
the nation".  Can't believe I'm quoting Mulroney here but Trudeau is an
excellent politician and so although I will wait for the Dec. 1st ERRE
report and the decision taken by the government, the lack of leadership may
well be deliberate.

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 10:49 PM, David dirks <daviddirks at rogers.com> wrote:

> If we go referendum then FPTP will decide the 2019 election.
>
> David
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 16, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What I fear about a referendum is the dishonest role the media played in
> Ontario 2007.  The Record scarcely mentioned the issue till 2 or 3 weeks
> beforehand, by which time they had op eds lined up from the No side.
> Couldn't get my op ed in.
>
> Note that neither Nathan Cullen nor Alex Boulerice (nor Eliz May) lived
> through that dirty Ont campaign.
>
> I think PM will keep trying different things till he finds a way to make
> AV look as if it's the people's choice.  So far it's proving harder than he
> anticipated.
>
> Eleanor
>
> On 16 Nov 2016 20:20, <fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. NDP open to referendum... (Eleanor Grant)
>    2. Re: NDP open to referendum... (haberlin at gmail.com)
>    3. Re: NDP open to referendum... (Dave Arthur)
>    4. Re: NDP open to referendum... (Sharon Sommerville)
>    5. Re: NDP open to referendum... (Laurel L. Russwurm)
>    6. Re: NDP open to referendum... (Laurel L. Russwurm)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com>
> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:50:05 -0500
> Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>
> Just saw this via Twitter:
>
> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politi
> cs/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-
> politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-
> reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>
> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about consensus on
> ERRE.
>
> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>
> Eleanor
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "haberlin at gmail.com" <haberlin at gmail.com>
> To: "'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'" <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> >
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:59:05 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>
> Thanks Eleanor.  I was going to post it to reddit but it was already
> there.  A lively discussion is taking place.
>
>
>
> SeanH.
>
>
>
> *From:* fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Eleanor Grant
> *Sent:* November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>
>
>
> Just saw this via Twitter:
>
> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politi
> cs/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-
> politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-
> reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>
> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about consensus on
> ERRE.
>
> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>
> Eleanor
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net>
> To: <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 19:00:32 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
> I still fear a referendum of a public that is uninformed could spell the
> end of reform for many years.
> If the government carries out an information campaign, including with
> their postcard mailout, that presents the input given to the committee
> throughout the last months, maybe it would succeed as did PEI.
> Dave A
>
> *From:* Eleanor Grant
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>
>
> Just saw this via Twitter:
>
> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politi
> cs/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-
> politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-
> reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>
> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about consensus on
> ERRE.
>
> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>
> Eleanor
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l
> istserv.thinkers.org
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com>
> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 19:58:27 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
> Thank you Eleanor,  looks like the horse trading may result in a
> referendum. It is a big gamble on the part of the NDP. It remains to be
> seen how we can have a referendum with the needed time for education and
> make a Sept. vote in House to ensure that Elections Canada has enough time
> to implement a new system in time for 2019.
>
> Sharon
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
>
>> I still fear a referendum of a public that is uninformed could spell the
>> end of reform for many years.
>> If the government carries out an information campaign, including with
>> their postcard mailout, that presents the input given to the committee
>> throughout the last months, maybe it would succeed as did PEI.
>> Dave A
>>
>> *From:* Eleanor Grant
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
>> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>>
>>
>> Just saw this via Twitter:
>>
>> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politi
>> cs/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-po
>> litics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-
>> referendum-reversing-previous-position
>>
>> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about consensus on
>> ERRE.
>>
>> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>>
>> Eleanor
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l
>> istserv.thinkers.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l
>> istserv.thinkers.org
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>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Laurel L. Russwurm" <laurel.l at russwurm.org>
> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 20:12:58 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
> Bad idea; caving on the referendum idea is very bad.  It may well be
> political.  When the Trudeau government tanks electoral reform, the new
> improved NDP can arise and be the heroes for actually implementing what
> Canadians want.
>
> Regards,
> Laurel
>
> On 11/16/2016 07:58 PM, Sharon Sommerville wrote:
>
> Thank you Eleanor,  looks like the horse trading may result in a
> referendum. It is a big gamble on the part of the NDP. It remains to be
> seen how we can have a referendum with the needed time for education and
> make a Sept. vote in House to ensure that Elections Canada has enough time
> to implement a new system in time for 2019.
>
> Sharon
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
>
>> I still fear a referendum of a public that is uninformed could spell the
>> end of reform for many years.
>> If the government carries out an information campaign, including with
>> their postcard mailout, that presents the input given to the committee
>> throughout the last months, maybe it would succeed as did PEI.
>> Dave A
>>
>> *From:* Eleanor Grant
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
>> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>>
>>
>> Just saw this via Twitter:
>>
>> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politi
>> cs/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-po
>> litics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-
>> referendum-reversing-previous-position
>>
>> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about consensus on
>> ERRE.
>>
>> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>>
>> Eleanor
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l
>> istserv.thinkers.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l
>> istserv.thinkers.org
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>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> ------------------------------
> ♦  *Laurel L. Russwurm, Author <http://laurel.russwurm.org/blogs/>*  ♦  *Libreleft
> Books* <http://libreleft.com>  ♦  *Laurel L. Russwurm's Free Culture Blog
> <https://laurelrusswurm.wordpress.com/>*  ♦  *Libreleft Pictures*
> <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL66aOelRZ1qtZ49PbicKRQC-OgAXPUhNz>
> ♦  *Whoa!Canada <https://whoacanada.wordpress.com/>*  ♦  *visual laurel*
> <http://laurelrusswurm.tumblr.com/>   ♦  *on Flickr
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/laurelrusswurm/albums/>*  ♦
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Laurel L. Russwurm" <laurel.l at russwurm.org>
> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 20:20:10 -0500
> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
> Dear Dave:
>
> Although Proportional Representation carried the day in PEI, the
> government is now suggesting it doesn't count because only 36
> % of voters voted.  (Of course they were happy to accept the result of
> the  previous electoral reform referendum where 36% of voters chose to keep
> the status quo.)   There are an infinite number of ways to kill electoral
> reform with a referendum.
>
> The reality is the Conservative mailout got abysmal response which ought
> to have resulted in them backing down.
>
> If anything we need more pressure now than during the consultation.
>
> Regards,
> Laurel
>
> .
>
> On 11/16/2016 07:00 PM, Dave Arthur wrote:
>
> I still fear a referendum of a public that is uninformed could spell the
> end of reform for many years.
> If the government carries out an information campaign, including with
> their postcard mailout, that presents the input given to the committee
> throughout the last months, maybe it would succeed as did PEI.
> Dave A
>
> *From:* Eleanor Grant
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>
>
> Just saw this via Twitter:
>
> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politi
> cs/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-
> politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-
> reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>
> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about consensus on
> ERRE.
>
> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>
> Eleanor
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l
> istserv.thinkers.org
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>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------
> ♦  *Laurel L. Russwurm, Author <http://laurel.russwurm.org/blogs/>*  ♦  *Libreleft
> Books* <http://libreleft.com>  ♦  *Laurel L. Russwurm's Free Culture Blog
> <https://laurelrusswurm.wordpress.com/>*  ♦  *Libreleft Pictures*
> <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL66aOelRZ1qtZ49PbicKRQC-OgAXPUhNz>
> ♦  *Whoa!Canada <https://whoacanada.wordpress.com/>*  ♦  *visual laurel*
> <http://laurelrusswurm.tumblr.com/>   ♦  *on Flickr
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/laurelrusswurm/albums/>*  ♦
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l
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>
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