[fvc-wat-disc] Referendum (Re: fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 92, Issue 20)
Laurel L. Russwurm
laurel.l at russwurm.org
Fri Nov 18 18:01:16 EST 2016
I don't think it is even a time when imposing anything on the populace
is an issue. When *anyone* (unblinded by partisanship or greed due to
disproportional representation) understands why we need electoral
reform, the idea is far from unpopular.
I have no doubt at all the PEI government is sandbagging the plebiscite
result at least in part due to pressure from above.
regards,
Laurel
On 11/17/2016 12:42 AM, Sharon Sommerville wrote:
> Notable lack of leadership on this file, Jennifer Ditchburn quoted
> Mulroney in a recent iPolitics article:
>
> "Leadership is the process, not only of foreseeing the need for
> change, but of making the case for change. Leadership does not
> consist of imposing unpopular ideas on the public but of making
> unpopular ideas acceptable to the nation". Can't believe I'm quoting
> Mulroney here but Trudeau is an excellent politician and so although I
> will wait for the Dec. 1st ERRE report and the decision taken by the
> government, the lack of leadership may well be deliberate.
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 10:49 PM, David dirks <daviddirks at rogers.com
> <mailto:daviddirks at rogers.com>> wrote:
>
> If we go referendum then FPTP will decide the 2019 election.
>
> David
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 16, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com
> <mailto:eleanor7000 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> What I fear about a referendum is the dishonest role the media
>> played in Ontario 2007. The Record scarcely mentioned the issue
>> till 2 or 3 weeks beforehand, by which time they had op eds lined
>> up from the No side. Couldn't get my op ed in.
>>
>> Note that neither Nathan Cullen nor Alex Boulerice (nor Eliz May)
>> lived through that dirty Ont campaign.
>>
>> I think PM will keep trying different things till he finds a way
>> to make AV look as if it's the people's choice. So far it's
>> proving harder than he anticipated.
>>
>> Eleanor
>>
>>
>> On 16 Nov 2016 20:20, <fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org>> wrote:
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. NDP open to referendum... (Eleanor Grant)
>> 2. Re: NDP open to referendum... (haberlin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:haberlin at gmail.com>)
>> 3. Re: NDP open to referendum... (Dave Arthur)
>> 4. Re: NDP open to referendum... (Sharon Sommerville)
>> 5. Re: NDP open to referendum... (Laurel L. Russwurm)
>> 6. Re: NDP open to referendum... (Laurel L. Russwurm)
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:eleanor7000 at gmail.com>>
>> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:50:05 -0500
>> Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>>
>> Just saw this via Twitter:
>>
>> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>> <http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position>
>>
>> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about
>> consensus on ERRE.
>>
>> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>>
>> Eleanor
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "haberlin at gmail.com <mailto:haberlin at gmail.com>"
>> <haberlin at gmail.com <mailto:haberlin at gmail.com>>
>> To: "'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'"
>> <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 17:59:05 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>>
>> Thanks Eleanor. I was going to post it to reddit but it was
>> already there. A lively discussion is taking place.
>>
>> SeanH.
>>
>> *From:*fvc-wat-disc
>> [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Eleanor Grant
>> *Sent:* November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
>> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>>
>> Just saw this via Twitter:
>>
>> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>> <http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position>
>>
>> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about
>> consensus on ERRE.
>>
>> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>>
>> Eleanor
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net
>> <mailto:arthurd23 at bell.net>>
>> To: <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 19:00:32 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>> I still fear a referendum of a public that is uninformed
>> could spell the end of reform for many years.
>> If the government carries out an information campaign,
>> including with their postcard mailout, that presents the
>> input given to the committee throughout the last months,
>> maybe it would succeed as did PEI.
>> Dave A
>> *From:* Eleanor Grant
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
>> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>>
>> Just saw this via Twitter:
>>
>> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>> <http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position>
>>
>> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about
>> consensus on ERRE.
>>
>> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>>
>> Eleanor
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
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>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com
>> <mailto:sharonsommerville at gmail.com>>
>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>> <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 19:58:27 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>> Thank you Eleanor, looks like the horse trading may result
>> in a referendum. It is a big gamble on the part of the NDP.
>> It remains to be seen how we can have a referendum with the
>> needed time for education and make a Sept. vote in House to
>> ensure that Elections Canada has enough time to implement a
>> new system in time for 2019.
>>
>> Sharon
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Dave Arthur
>> <arthurd23 at bell.net <mailto:arthurd23 at bell.net>> wrote:
>>
>> I still fear a referendum of a public that is uninformed
>> could spell the end of reform for many years.
>> If the government carries out an information campaign,
>> including with their postcard mailout, that presents the
>> input given to the committee throughout the last months,
>> maybe it would succeed as did PEI.
>> Dave A
>> *From:* Eleanor Grant
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
>> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>>
>> Just saw this via Twitter:
>>
>> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>> <http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position>
>>
>> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings
>> about consensus on ERRE.
>>
>> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still
>> intense.
>>
>> Eleanor
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
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>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Laurel L. Russwurm" <laurel.l at russwurm.org
>> <mailto:laurel.l at russwurm.org>>
>> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 20:12:58 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>> Bad idea; caving on the referendum idea is very bad. It may
>> well be political. When the Trudeau government tanks
>> electoral reform, the new improved NDP can arise and be the
>> heroes for actually implementing what Canadians want.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Laurel
>>
>> On 11/16/2016 07:58 PM, Sharon Sommerville wrote:
>>> Thank you Eleanor, looks like the horse trading may result
>>> in a referendum. It is a big gamble on the part of the NDP.
>>> It remains to be seen how we can have a referendum with the
>>> needed time for education and make a Sept. vote in House to
>>> ensure that Elections Canada has enough time to implement a
>>> new system in time for 2019.
>>>
>>> Sharon
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Dave Arthur
>>> <arthurd23 at bell.net <mailto:arthurd23 at bell.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I still fear a referendum of a public that is uninformed
>>> could spell the end of reform for many years.
>>> If the government carries out an information campaign,
>>> including with their postcard mailout, that presents the
>>> input given to the committee throughout the last months,
>>> maybe it would succeed as did PEI.
>>> Dave A
>>> *From:* Eleanor Grant
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
>>> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>>>
>>> Just saw this via Twitter:
>>>
>>> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>>> <http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position>
>>>
>>> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings
>>> about consensus on ERRE.
>>>
>>> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still
>>> intense.
>>>
>>> Eleanor
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>>> Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ♦ *Laurel L. Russwurm, Author
>> <http://laurel.russwurm.org/blogs/>* ♦ *Libreleft Books*
>> <http://libreleft.com> ♦ *Laurel L. Russwurm's Free Culture
>> Blog <https://laurelrusswurm.wordpress.com/>* ♦ *Libreleft
>> Pictures*
>> <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL66aOelRZ1qtZ49PbicKRQC-OgAXPUhNz>
>> ♦ *Whoa!Canada <https://whoacanada.wordpress.com/>* ♦ *visual
>> laurel* <http://laurelrusswurm.tumblr.com/> ♦ *on Flickr
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/laurelrusswurm/albums/>* ♦
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Laurel L.
>> Russwurm" <laurel.l at russwurm.org
>> <mailto:laurel.l at russwurm.org>> To:
>> fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org> Cc: Date: Wed, 16
>> Nov 2016 20:20:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open
>> to referendum...
>> Dear Dave: Although Proportional Representation carried the
>> day in PEI, the government is now suggesting it doesn't count
>> because only 36 % of voters voted. (Of course they were
>> happy to accept the result of the previous electoral reform
>> referendum where 36% of voters chose to keep the status
>> quo.) There are an infinite number of ways to kill
>> electoral reform with a referendum. The reality is the
>> Conservative mailout got abysmal response which ought to have
>> resulted in them backing down. If anything we need more
>> pressure now than during the consultation. Regards, Laurel .
>> On 11/16/2016 07:00 PM, Dave Arthur wrote:
>>> I still fear a referendum of a public that is uninformed
>>> could spell the end of reform for many years.
>>> If the government carries out an information campaign,
>>> including with their postcard mailout, that presents the
>>> input given to the committee throughout the last months,
>>> maybe it would succeed as did PEI.
>>> Dave A
>>> *From:* Eleanor Grant
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:50 PM
>>> *To:* fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> *Subject:* [fvc-wat-disc] NDP open to referendum...
>>>
>>> Just saw this via Twitter:
>>>
>>> http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position
>>> <http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/canadian-politics/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/ndp-says-its-willing-to-support-an-electoral-reform-referendum-reversing-previous-position>
>>>
>>> Apparently they'd consider a referendum IFF it brings about
>>> consensus on ERRE.
>>>
>>> Sounds as if, with Dec 1 looming, discussions are still intense.
>>>
>>> Eleanor
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________ This is the
>>> fvc-wat-disc mailing list Post a message:
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>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ♦ *Laurel L. Russwurm, Author
>> <http://laurel.russwurm.org/blogs/>* ♦ *Libreleft Books*
>> <http://libreleft.com> ♦ *Laurel L. Russwurm's Free Culture
>> Blog <https://laurelrusswurm.wordpress.com/>* ♦ *Libreleft
>> Pictures*
>> <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL66aOelRZ1qtZ49PbicKRQC-OgAXPUhNz>
>> ♦ *Whoa!Canada <https://whoacanada.wordpress.com/>* ♦ *visual
>> laurel* <http://laurelrusswurm.tumblr.com/> ♦ *on Flickr
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/laurelrusswurm/albums/>* ♦
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♦ *Laurel L. Russwurm, Author <http://laurel.russwurm.org/blogs/>* ♦
*Libreleft Books* <http://libreleft.com> ♦ *Laurel L. Russwurm's Free
Culture Blog <https://laurelrusswurm.wordpress.com/>* ♦ *Libreleft
Pictures*
<https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL66aOelRZ1qtZ49PbicKRQC-OgAXPUhNz>
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