[fvc-wat-disc] fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 95, Issue 68

Tue Feb 28 09:31:17 EST 2017

Shareable (fb) invite re Thursday???Thanks, Mo 

  On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:48 PM, fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org<fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org> wrote:   Send fvc-wat-disc mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Five Liberal MPs In One Place At One Time, Let's Have A
      Rally! (Sharon Sommerville)
  2. Re: Total ballots ... (STUART CHANDLER)
  3. "Local PR" initiative in Guelph (Eleanor Grant)
  4. Re: "Local PR" initiative in Guelph (STUART CHANDLER)
  5. Re: "Local PR" initiative in Guelph (Jennifer Ross)
  6. Re: Total ballots ...'wasted' votes (John Cooper)

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 22:08:57 -0500
From: Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com>
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
    <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
Cc: "fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org"
    <fvc-wat-announce at listserv.thinkers.org>
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Five Liberal MPs In One Place At One Time,
    Let's Have A Rally!
Message-ID:
    <CAL30Ef3KH46rZyiuZA+Ci_JvN3aZOKtW2Raod8ogAii9GdL_rQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks Stu, see you on Thursday!

Sharon

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 9:48 PM, STUART CHANDLER <stuchandler43 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Sharon.
> I'll be there!
> Cheers.
> Stu
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
> *From: *Sharon Sommerville
> *Sent: *Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:42 PM
> *To: *fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org; fvc-wat-announce at listserv.
> thinkers.org
> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> *Subject: *[fvc-wat-disc] Five Liberal MPs In One Place At One Time,
> Let's Have A Rally!
>
> Hello Fellow FairVoters,
>
> On Thursday, March 2nd at 6 pm, Melaine Joly, Minister of Canadian
> Heritage will be joining Waterloo Region Liberal MPs for a meet & greet at
> St. John the Evangelist Church, 23 Water Street in Kitchener.
>
> With 5 Liberal MPs, including 2 cabinet ministers in one place at one
> time, we thought we should take this opportunity to remind Liberal
> politicians that reneging on the promise to end First Past The Post and
> make every vote count will have consequences.
>
> The meet and greet starts at 6 pm, so we will gather at St. John the
> Evangelist Church (basement entrance on Duke Street) at 5:45 pm. If all the
> MPs arrive on time, we will rally until 6:15 pm.  Bring horns, tooters,
> drums, signs or funny hats, whatever you like to make a point; we are here,
> we are disappointed and we aren't going to forget that you broke your
> promise to make every vote count.
>
> Event:  Reminding Liberals Rally
> Date:    Thursday, March 2nd
> Time:    5:45 pm
> Where: St. John the Evangelist Church
>              Duke & Water St. in Kitchener
>              Duke Street entrance to the basement
>
>
> See you there?
>
> With thanks,
>
> Sharon
> for FairVoteCanada - Waterloo Region
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 22:46:16 -0500
From: STUART CHANDLER <stuchandler43 at gmail.com>
To: John Cooper <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>,    'FVC Waterloo
    Region Discussion' <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Total ballots ...
Message-ID: <20170228034616.6107221.78216.12373 at gmail.com>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 22:47:04 -0500
From: Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com>
To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] "Local PR" initiative in Guelph
Message-ID:
    <CAEYE8EC75cHAYhdP7zPuuvxp2JROpbdBDbiJ0LyfZLtuOB1c3w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hey Fair Voters,

Have you heard of this initiative in Guelph riding?  What think?
http://www.allvotescount.ca/

Eleanor
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 22:59:30 -0500
From: STUART CHANDLER <stuchandler43 at gmail.com>
To: Eleanor Grant <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>,
    fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] "Local PR" initiative in Guelph
Message-ID: <20170228035930.6107221.87788.12376 at gmail.com>
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 23:15:51 -0500
From: Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com>
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
    <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] "Local PR" initiative in Guelph
Message-ID:
    <CAG=bRSr+3VPOWtpwF+DdgoH4T_j1OKGW6k7RUtcTd=NELX4JSQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

It is the most fantastic system!

Not only does every vote have a chance to count, but even how you choose to
cast your vote is the choice of the voter!

I'm really hoping for good things.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 10:47 PM, Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hey Fair Voters,
>
> Have you heard of this initiative in Guelph riding?  What think?
> http://www.allvotescount.ca/
>
> Eleanor
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_
> listserv.thinkers.org
>
>

-- 
No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in
the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 23:48:21 -0500
From: "John Cooper" <johnco at golden.net>
To: "'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'"
    <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Total ballots ...'wasted' votes
Message-ID: <006101d2917d$e366f280$aa34d780$@golden.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Stu

So based on your argument, all votes must elect the winner or none are of any value.

The fact is that only one candidate can be elected. 

Why bother to have more than one political party and more than one candidate?

Or as George Washington proposed: no political parties.

Maybe the ?make every vote count" phrase is the ?wrong choice??

Maybe our way of selecting our political leaders by votes is all wrong.

Is there another way? 

Is it possible to have consensus when thousands of people are selecting a representative?

Based on voter intentions and the results in the last election, more people are opposed to ?first past the post? than those who support it.

Trudeau and the Liberals have chosen to ignore this for their own purposes.

I'm from the older generation too. 

There are many of ?our generation? who do not vote because they never did or they have become too cynical.

From: fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] On Behalf Of STUART CHANDLER
Sent: February-27-17 10:46 PM
To: John Cooper; 'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Total ballots ...

Hi John. 

I'm not sure about others, but I choose to use the term "wasted vote" for a deliberate purpose. I use it for any potential shocking effect it might have on the reader/listener?, and I always follow it with brackets stating something like: () to explain what I mean by "wasted vote". 

I've heard others advance the theory that no vote is wasted, but I find I'm not interested ?in pursuing that theory as I worry that the opponents of PR will simply use it as a way to justify their satisfaction with the status quo. I would not want to feed their addiction to FPTP.

My vote in 2015 was one of the more than 9 Million "wasted votes"?, so I am taking it personally that the person I chose to support was beaten by someone I was opposed to, so I am effectively without representation in Parliament (at least from my riding - and it appears from most other ridings as well, particularly since all the Liberal MPs have betrayed those of us who were voting for the concept of electoral reform). 

I'm from the older generation, many of whom will continue to exercise the civic responsibility to vote, even if my choice doesn't win. But many others are discouraged from voting because they do not expect their vote will actually affect the outcome. Consequently, I believe we need to stick with identifying such votes as wasted, in order to advance our cause "to make every vote count". ?(Otherwise that phrase is pointless.)

Sincerely. 

Stu Chandler. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.

From: John Cooper

Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 5:55 PM

To: 'FVC Waterloo Region Discussion'

Reply To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion

Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Total ballots ...

in a democracy (whatever that is) , no vote is a ?wasted vote?. Everyone who meets the criteria has a right ? and a duty as a citizen - to vote.

It?s only wasted if you did not vote according to your principles and values for the person or party who shares those with you or you did not vote at all.

There?s a difference between a ?wasted vote? and a ?principled vote?.

The real issue is whether the person elected receives more than a simple plurality of votes over the other candidates.

Is that democracy?

The people who voted for the ?winners? and are not happy with the decisions of those ?winners? after they gained power ? those are wasted votes

because you did not vote according to your principles. You got ?sucked in? by the promises of liars.

From: fvc-wat-disc [mailto:fvc-wat-disc-bounces at listserv.thinkers.org] On Behalf Of Eleanor Grant
Sent: February-27-17 5:08 PM
To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] Total ballots ...

Hi Fair Voters - 

These are the numbers that Jenn found for me on Feb 9.

Results of 2015 Oct 19 election:

35,749,600 - Population of Canada

25,638,379 - Eligible Voters

17,559,353 - Ballots cast

  8,214,532 - Effective votes

  9,106,926 - "Wasted" votes, elected no one.

I noticed the numbers don't add up;

237,895 votes are unaccounted for.

Would there be that many spoiled ballots across the country?

But even if all of these were added to the effective votes, they're still far outnumbered by the votes which elected no one.  That's scandalous.

Eleanor 

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