[fvc-wat-disc] Arguing for PR

Anita Nickerson anitann88 at gmail.com
Mon May 1 00:19:57 EDT 2017 

Hi Jay! Please do keep engaging with your MP and ask other people to do the
same thing. On May 31 they can be heroes but to say they need a bit of a
push is an understatement.

People are doing the opposite of walking away, I mean to say.

After Harper won his majority, that day in 2011 - everyone knowing that
basically for four years there was no hope of anything happening - we had
thousands of emails to FVC with people wanting to get involved. When
something's unfair, when parties abuse their power, it makes people realize
something's seriously wrong.

One thing with the election promise and then the ERRE consultations is the
government gave all our folks REAL HOPE - first they promised - and many PR
supporters voted or campaigned for them - then they told us to show up here
and here and here and we'll listen to you, all the while Trudeau repeating
they were committed.

People* invested their time in this in good faith.* When you invest your
time in something, you get to care about it a bit more. People showed up at
the town hall, the ERRE consultation, the Minister's tour. They wrote
letters, they send long submissions to the ERRE committee on what they
wanted and why and talked about isn't it great that you are doing this
because they were told over and over that their feedback mattered.

If the Liberals had just quietly walked away from their promise on October
20, 2015, as most people expected them to do, as most governments with a
39% majority would do, we wouldn't see what Jenn is talking about now.

But because Trudeau kept the game going so long and with such intensity, a
core of people really got personally *involved *so when Trudeau suddenly
pulled the plug he fired up a community that is now somewhere between
disgusted and furious at being used and lied to.

A community with a *long *memory.

Anita

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 11:55 PM, Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, Jay.  Welcome to the movement (and the country!)
>
> I am a Liberal.  I have tried each of those arguments many times; they
> sure make sense to me, and they made some sense to my Liberal friends prior
> to around October of 2016.  After all, Sharon and I only wrote the
> "important" part of Resolution 31 (the policy that brought about the
> election platform on Electoral Reform); we couldn't have passed it through
> the policy gauntlet by ourselves and without buy-in from the membership,
> and particularly from the caucus.
>
> But, in a telling reason why we need PR to end hyper-partisanship, most
> Liberal rank and file no longer want to hear it, and Liberal MPs will
> "engage" with you without actually paying any attention to you.  In fact,
> Francis Scarpaleggia actually said, out loud and during a press conference
> "platform promises are just a way to engage with Canadians."  That's not
> what I was doing when I was helping our Liberals win government, I can
> assure you!  I was highlighting the *promise*.
>
> Oh, and non-engagement of Canadian citizenry translates to they don't want
> to change the voting system, not that they are so non-engaged they don't
> even know other options are available.  Or an understanding of what we have
> now for that matter.  Or they don't feel they know enough about the options
> that they should weigh in on the decision-making (which I think is the
> majority).
>
> Maybe hearing about it from someone new will be helpful, particularly if
> you have some lived experience or a different perspective to inform your
> conclusions.  Telling the story as to why you've come to believe it, as it
> were.
>
> But, we don't give up because I'm the Treasurer of Fair Vote Canada, and
> am right now going through our membership list for reasons that aren't
> important to the discussion.  And I am totally blown away by the number of
> members whose membership had lapsed and they renewed after December 1st
> (when the Report of the ERRE came down) and the new members who signed up
> after February 1st (when Justin Trudeau pulled the plug on electoral
> reform).  People are doing the opposite of walking away, I mean to say.
>
> We even have two members who DIED and whose family is still paying their
> membership dues.  That is how important this issue is to some.  So for
> those dear friends as well as everyone still fighting for the cause, please
> do all of it.  :)
>
> The Record is good and we get our fair share of letters these days, I
> think.  Even better are the Township papers who actually support PR (which
> you'd think would be the other way around but there we are).  But you need
> to be a rural person to be published by them, I think.  Then there's the
> Waterloo Chronicle and the Kitchener Post, which we don't tend to
> concentrate on so they may be ripe for the picking.  *We do have a letter
> writing group and I hope someone else tells you more about that.*
>
> Where are you from?  Because if there is a diaspora in the Region also
> from that country or region, it would be most valuable to connect with them
> and offer a PR 101 course for Canada (don't worry, we have people who are
> experts to do it).
>
> Thanks so much for stepping on board!
>
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 11:17 PM, Jay Judkowitz <judkowitz at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Fairvote folks,
>>
>>      As someone new to the area and the country, I am wondering what the
>> best way is to argue the case for PR and where we should be arguing it.
>>
>>      I have mailed my MP, Mr. Tabbara, and received a long form letter in
>> return that I'm sure most of you have seen (they did not even put my name
>> on it and called me "Diana").  I replied to his mail, but am not
>> anticipating a personalized engagement.
>>
>>       Letters to the editor can get some visibility.  What publications
>> would you suggest I write to?
>>
>>       What about opposing organizations?  Is there any group in
>> particular who it would be worthwhile to engage with to try and change
>> their mind through open and honest discourse?
>>
>>       As for arguments that would work and would not work, I am trying to
>> put myself in the position of the Liberals since the Liberals are the ones
>> with the power to make or break PR right now.  And, in that mindset, there
>> are three arguments that make sense to me.
>>
>>    1. Liberals have complete power now which is great, but it was only a
>>    short time ago when they had no power.  Conservatives ruled for 10 years
>>    while they waited.  Wouldn't they want some say all the time rather than no
>>    say for a decade at a time.
>>    2. PR is a huge benefit to the party in the middle of a system with 3
>>    relatively popular parties.  Even when they can not just dictate policy,
>>    they can partner to the left or the right to make policy on any given
>>    issue.  It would seem that PR would benefit them the most of any party in
>>    the long term.
>>    3. It's scary to let a party with 39% of the vote get 100% of the
>>    power.  Imagine a situation like the US.  Let's say 15% of Canadians (and
>>    I'm just making up that number) are really fed up with things and
>>    vehemently support a right wing demagogue like Trump and that demagogue
>>    manages to become the Conservative Party leader.  Let's say at the same
>>    time the Liberals and/or NDP falter due to scandal, a bad candidate, an
>>    economic downturn, a terrorist attack, etc...   In that situation, it's not
>>    hard to imagine another 24% of Canadians holding their nose and voting for
>>    the Conservatives led by that demagogue.  They hit the 39% of the votes,
>>    get the 51% of the seats and 100% of the power.  This does not seem like a
>>    likely event for any given election, but seems to be a certainty to happen
>>    eventually (based on the math and probability, not based on any notion I
>>    have of Canadian preferences).   Wouldn't the Liberals want to do anything
>>    to prevent this sort of scenario from being even possible?  I know the
>>    counter argument to this is that the right wing radicals would always be
>>    represented in a PR scenario, but I'd rather that they always have small
>>    representation and continually expose themselves than that they can lie in
>>    wait and eventually win a stunning victory like what happened in the US in
>>    November.
>>
>>       Please let me know your thoughts on (a) where we should be making
>> the case and (b) your thoughts on the case I'm making.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jay
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in
> the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
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