[fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic

Mon Jun 4 11:27:52 EDT 2018

I agree with you!

I doubt a candidate can do much, although one need not say a word to get
the point across in the right circumstances.  Or start the conversation
with "our internal polling says I can't win this riding, but I'm here to
promote progressive policies" to get it into the right circumstances.

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Stephanie Janzen-Martin <
stephanie at janzenmartin.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Perhaps what I wrote wasn't worded clearly enough - not trying to suggest
> that she break election laws. :)
>
> However, there is probably a way that she could have gotten the message
> across without actually naming names eg "here are the things that we value,
> and that I think others value as well. Vote for the party that you feel
> best represents inclusion and progressive values instead of exclusion and
> divisiveness etc that makes sense in your riding..." (or whatever it would
> look like, exactly.)
>
> It's really a fairly minor change - instead of "vote for the liberal
> candidate at all cost so that the others don't get too many seats even if
> that means accepting vote splitting etc" switch to "vote for the best
> option for a progressive candidate that shares our values so that
> progressive values continue to be represented strongly in the next gov't."
>
> That would get the point across, earn respect, not break any laws and move
> things forward towards cooperation and collaboration instead of the current
> status quo.
>
> Process question here: If a Liberal candidate knew that they weren't going
> to win, and that the few votes they got would be from the NDP, which would
> hand the riding to a conservative, would that candidate have any options eg
> withdraw and support the NDP? any other options? Anything that could be
> done in a few really tight ridings tp help tip the balance?
>
> Probably still wishful thinking, but I'm an eternal optimist. :)
>
> SJM
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:12 AM Jay Judkowitz <judkowitz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with what Bob wrote.  I think parties can be short sighted and
>> think their majorities (and policies) will live forever and therefore don't
>> worry about future-proofing democracy until it's too late and they are
>> about to lose their majority.  Seems cynical to me.
>>
>> I really agree with what Stephanie wrote.  What she described would have
>> been the reaction that would have been best for Ontario IMO and what would
>> have gotten me to think of them as more public spirited and less cynical
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 9:58 AM Stephanie Janzen-Martin <
>> stephanie at janzenmartin.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I agree that her messaging would have made much more sense with PR than
>>> now, when it can easily come across as quite negative ie "We could handle
>>> the responsibilities of being gov't but nobody else can, so if you can't
>>> have us, you can't have anybody else, either...". For me, she would have
>>> earned a lot more respect if she would have have said something like "I
>>> know that our time here is up, for a variety of reasons. I still want the
>>> progressive values I work for to continue and would happily support an NDP
>>> gov't.  Let's work together to ensure that the divisiveness of Ford doesn't
>>> take hold in Ontatio."
>>>
>>> Then, in any close ridings, the progressive vote wouldn't get split, and
>>> probably, a lot of what the Liberals want, they would get in an NDP gov't.
>>> Next step after that would be PR.
>>>
>>> Wishful thinking, I know - but that, in my opinion, was her best shot at
>>> going out with the most respect. :)
>>>
>>> Just what comes to mind for me in this discussion at this point.
>>>
>>> SJM
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course, voting for the best candidate in your riding has always been
>>>> the correct strategy, no matter what the polls or the politicians say
>>>> today.
>>>>
>>>> As long as our voting system is Single Member Plurality, ie.
>>>> Winner-Take-All (and "Winner" may be the candidate with only 29% of the
>>>> vote), the voters cannot expect that their concerns will be addressed by
>>>> an MPP that doesn't share those concerns. This means that if a voter's
>>>> strategic vote is successful, they've guaranteed they're getting a
>>>> candidate who won't act on their concerns.
>>>>
>>>> Kathleen Wynne's exhortation that people should vote Liberal for a
>>>> minority government may just result in enough votes to win a few swing
>>>> ridings (eg. Kitchener--Conestoga). Strangely, conceding defeat may
>>>> actually be a winning strategy.
>>>>
>>>> But regardless of the outcome, I doubt the three big parties will act on
>>>> implementing proportional representation, because there's always the
>>>> next election where they could win big with a minority of votes.
>>>>
>>>> --Bob.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
>>>> <(519)%20635-9413>
>>>> SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
>>>> Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
>>>> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2018-06-03 11:53 AM, Jay Judkowitz wrote:
>>>> > Exactly!
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Jun 3, 2018, 11:43 AM David Dolson <ddolson at golden.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> In my opinion, At this point, to advance PR, our message should be
>>>> "elect
>>>> >> the best candidate in your riding. Forget parties.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -Dave
>>>> >> *From: *Jay Judkowitz
>>>> >> *Sent: *Sunday, June 3, 2018 10:41 AM
>>>> >> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>>> >> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>>> >> *Subject: *[fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Good morning,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>       I'm sure most of us have noticed the recent Liberal message,
>>>> "We're
>>>> >> going to lose our majority, but vote for as many of us as possible
>>>> to force
>>>> >> a minority government so the evil PC and the irresponsible NDP can't
>>>> ruin
>>>> >> the province."
>>>> >>
>>>> >>      If we had PR, this would be exactly the right message for them
>>>> to go
>>>> >> with.  But, without PR, they will split the left of center vote and
>>>> give us
>>>> >> Premier Ford.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>      My question to those of you with connections to the Liberal
>>>> >> leadership is as follows.  Are the so lacking in self awareness that
>>>> they
>>>> >> don't realize that they had 15 years to pass PR and to prepare for
>>>> the
>>>> >> inevitability of their eventual loss of majority?  Or are they so
>>>> cynical
>>>> >> that they actually want Premier Ford figuring he'll break so much so
>>>> >> quickly that they will soon be back in power with another majority?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>       Thanks in advance for your insights.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Best regards,
>>>> >> Jay
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>> >> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> >> Unsubscribe:
>>>> >> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_
>>>> listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>> > Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> > Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/
>>>> mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/
>>>> mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>>> Find me at: Menno Adventures... https://sustainabledevelopmentresource
>>> s.wordpress.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_
>>> listserv.thinkers.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_
>> listserv.thinkers.org
>>
> --
>
> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
> Find me at: Menno Adventures... https://sustainabledevelopmentresource
> s.wordpress.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_
> listserv.thinkers.org
>
>

-- 
No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in
the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.thinkers.org/pipermail/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org/attachments/20180604/f0e9fedb/attachment-0002.htm>