[fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic

Mon Jun 4 11:30:55 EDT 2018

Hi,

Totally - one candidate on their own can't do much, but a few key
candidates, in key ridings, could give a very subtle nudge, and that could
be enough to tip the balance. :)

SJM

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 11:28 AM Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree with you!
>
> I doubt a candidate can do much, although one need not say a word to get
> the point across in the right circumstances.  Or start the conversation
> with "our internal polling says I can't win this riding, but I'm here to
> promote progressive policies" to get it into the right circumstances.
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Stephanie Janzen-Martin <
> stephanie at janzenmartin.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Perhaps what I wrote wasn't worded clearly enough - not trying to suggest
>> that she break election laws. :)
>>
>> However, there is probably a way that she could have gotten the message
>> across without actually naming names eg "here are the things that we value,
>> and that I think others value as well. Vote for the party that you feel
>> best represents inclusion and progressive values instead of exclusion and
>> divisiveness etc that makes sense in your riding..." (or whatever it would
>> look like, exactly.)
>>
>> It's really a fairly minor change - instead of "vote for the liberal
>> candidate at all cost so that the others don't get too many seats even if
>> that means accepting vote splitting etc" switch to "vote for the best
>> option for a progressive candidate that shares our values so that
>> progressive values continue to be represented strongly in the next gov't."
>>
>> That would get the point across, earn respect, not break any laws and
>> move things forward towards cooperation and collaboration instead of the
>> current status quo.
>>
>> Process question here: If a Liberal candidate knew that they weren't
>> going to win, and that the few votes they got would be from the NDP, which
>> would hand the riding to a conservative, would that candidate have any
>> options eg withdraw and support the NDP? any other options? Anything that
>> could be done in a few really tight ridings tp help tip the balance?
>>
>> Probably still wishful thinking, but I'm an eternal optimist. :)
>>
>> SJM
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:12 AM Jay Judkowitz <judkowitz at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with what Bob wrote.  I think parties can be short sighted and
>>> think their majorities (and policies) will live forever and therefore don't
>>> worry about future-proofing democracy until it's too late and they are
>>> about to lose their majority.  Seems cynical to me.
>>>
>>> I really agree with what Stephanie wrote.  What she described would have
>>> been the reaction that would have been best for Ontario IMO and what would
>>> have gotten me to think of them as more public spirited and less cynical
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 9:58 AM Stephanie Janzen-Martin <
>>> stephanie at janzenmartin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I agree that her messaging would have made much more sense with PR than
>>>> now, when it can easily come across as quite negative ie "We could handle
>>>> the responsibilities of being gov't but nobody else can, so if you can't
>>>> have us, you can't have anybody else, either...". For me, she would have
>>>> earned a lot more respect if she would have have said something like "I
>>>> know that our time here is up, for a variety of reasons. I still want the
>>>> progressive values I work for to continue and would happily support an NDP
>>>> gov't.  Let's work together to ensure that the divisiveness of Ford doesn't
>>>> take hold in Ontatio."
>>>>
>>>> Then, in any close ridings, the progressive vote wouldn't get split,
>>>> and probably, a lot of what the Liberals want, they would get in an NDP
>>>> gov't. Next step after that would be PR.
>>>>
>>>> Wishful thinking, I know - but that, in my opinion, was her best shot
>>>> at going out with the most respect. :)
>>>>
>>>> Just what comes to mind for me in this discussion at this point.
>>>>
>>>> SJM
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Of course, voting for the best candidate in your riding has always been
>>>>> the correct strategy, no matter what the polls or the politicians say
>>>>> today.
>>>>>
>>>>> As long as our voting system is Single Member Plurality, ie.
>>>>> Winner-Take-All (and "Winner" may be the candidate with only 29% of the
>>>>> vote), the voters cannot expect that their concerns will be addressed
>>>>> by
>>>>> an MPP that doesn't share those concerns. This means that if a voter's
>>>>> strategic vote is successful, they've guaranteed they're getting a
>>>>> candidate who won't act on their concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kathleen Wynne's exhortation that people should vote Liberal for a
>>>>> minority government may just result in enough votes to win a few swing
>>>>> ridings (eg. Kitchener--Conestoga). Strangely, conceding defeat may
>>>>> actually be a winning strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>> But regardless of the outcome, I doubt the three big parties will act
>>>>> on
>>>>> implementing proportional representation, because there's always the
>>>>> next election where they could win big with a minority of votes.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Bob.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
>>>>> <(519)%20635-9413>
>>>>> SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
>>>>> Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
>>>>> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2018-06-03 11:53 AM, Jay Judkowitz wrote:
>>>>> > Exactly!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sun, Jun 3, 2018, 11:43 AM David Dolson <ddolson at golden.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> In my opinion, At this point, to advance PR, our message should be
>>>>> "elect
>>>>> >> the best candidate in your riding. Forget parties.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> -Dave
>>>>> >> *From: *Jay Judkowitz
>>>>> >> *Sent: *Sunday, June 3, 2018 10:41 AM
>>>>> >> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>>>> >> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>>>> >> *Subject: *[fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Good morning,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>       I'm sure most of us have noticed the recent Liberal message,
>>>>> "We're
>>>>> >> going to lose our majority, but vote for as many of us as possible
>>>>> to force
>>>>> >> a minority government so the evil PC and the irresponsible NDP
>>>>> can't ruin
>>>>> >> the province."
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>      If we had PR, this would be exactly the right message for them
>>>>> to go
>>>>> >> with.  But, without PR, they will split the left of center vote and
>>>>> give us
>>>>> >> Premier Ford.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>      My question to those of you with connections to the Liberal
>>>>> >> leadership is as follows.  Are the so lacking in self awareness
>>>>> that they
>>>>> >> don't realize that they had 15 years to pass PR and to prepare for
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> inevitability of their eventual loss of majority?  Or are they so
>>>>> cynical
>>>>> >> that they actually want Premier Ford figuring he'll break so much so
>>>>> >> quickly that they will soon be back in power with another majority?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>       Thanks in advance for your insights.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Best regards,
>>>>> >> Jay
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>>>> Find me at: Menno Adventures...
>>>> https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> --
>>
>> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>> Find me at: Menno Adventures...
>> https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in
> the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
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-- 

Stephanie Janzen-Martin
Find me at: Menno Adventures...
https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
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