[fvc-wat-disc] fvc-wat-disc Digest, Vol 111, Issue 1
Catherine Campbell
cdcampbell9 at gmail.com
Mon Jun 4 14:24:38 EDT 2018
Yes, Eleanor. It will be revolting. Mini-Trump and his appointed candidate geldings will run the government badly. I wonder which highway the Conservatives will sell this time? Which government-owned assets it will privatize by selling to the rich donors? Say goodbye to green energy like wind farms
> On Jun 4, 2018, at 12:49 PM, Eleanor Grant <eleanor7000 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Fair Voters:
>
> Have you been watching poll analyst Erin Kelly on TVO The Agenda? She claims that even if the NDP wins the popular vote, there will still be a Ford majority of 20 seats because of the efficiency of the PC vote. People aren't grasping this!
>
> See if this link works for Erin's June 1 interview with Steve Paikin:
> https://t.co/c2DI3YFzMw?amp=1
> It's a must-see.
>
> I'm imagining the rage Ontarians will feel Friday morning if NDP is solidly ahead in popular vote but we're stuck with Ford for 4 yrs.
>
> Eleanor
>
>
>> On 4 Jun 2018 09:58, <fvc-wat-disc-request at listserv.thinkers.org> wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: [fvc-wat-announce] Meet The Waterloo Candidates Tomorrow
>> Night! (Donald Fraser)
>> 2. Re: Discussion group tonight! (Donald Fraser)
>> 3. Re: [fvc-wat-announce] Meet The Waterloo Candidates Tomorrow
>> Night! (Jennifer Ross)
>> 4. Re: Discussion group tonight! (Corliss Olson)
>> 5. Latest liberal tactic (Jay Judkowitz)
>> 6. Re: Latest liberal tactic (Jennifer Ross)
>> 7. Re: Latest liberal tactic (David Dolson)
>> 8. Re: Latest liberal tactic (Jay Judkowitz)
>> 9. Re: Latest liberal tactic (Bob Jonkman)
>> 10. Re: Latest liberal tactic (Stephanie Janzen-Martin)
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com>
>> To: Jennifer Ross <jenn at jenniferross.ca>, FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:48:54 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Meet The Waterloo Candidates Tomorrow Night!
>> "you need 30,000 of those 20,000 to vote yes" ... this sounds like travelling faster than light
>>
>>> On 30 May 2018 at 13:06, Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Heh, we have a National Council member coming from a long way away to work on Schreiner's campaign next week. And then, he's going to drive up to Ottawa for the FVC AGM. Which, you can, too! https://www.eventbrite.com/e/fair-vote-canada-agm-2018-tickets-45842411888
>>>
>>> For those who are maybe nervous about voting NDP, and cynical altogether, I believe the BC-NDP just came through. A two-part question, followed by three options of PR. Yippee!!!! (My opinion only)
>>>
>>> But I'm excited! I'm looking forward to this year now!! On the other hand, the PEI referendum is an absolute joke. And NOT funny!! Have you guys heard? 50% of people voting in ANOTHER election have to vote yes (i.e., if the municipal elections have 60,000 votes and the referendum has 20,000 votes, you need 30,000 of those 20,000 to vote yes) And if you don't vote at all in the referendum, your non-vote counts on the 'no' column. Oh, and just in case, you also have to have 60% support of the ridings. (27 ridings means above-calculated yes votes in 14 of them) In case that wasn't hedging their bets enough, both the yes side and the no side get $75,000 of government money. There can be any number of groups who can qualify for the yes side and the no side. So if 20 people at five people per group choose to say they'd like to be on the yes side, that is $15,000 the FVC-PEI team gets to spend. No telling if the other four qualified yes advertisers will spend wisely, have a clue what they are doing, aren't really no side supporters, etc. And our team can't spend any more, or advocate for PR until the next Provincial election! How's that for silencing opponents? The money these Liberals will spend to NOT give us what we want is astounding. I mean, saying no at the outset doesn't cost anything. Not campaigning on changing the voting system costs even less.
>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 12:40 PM, Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Guelph Green hq 163 Suffolk, GUELPH
>>>>
>>>>> On May 30, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I want a minority and if this keeps up we'll overshoot the mark the way we did Federally. And look where THAT got us! I still haven't completely made up my mind, but if splitting the NDP vote with the Greens means a Conservative candidate, in Kitchener Centre I'm okay with that. Not if it means a Doug Ford government of course, but that is looking less likely by the day! Horwath is up five points and Ford lost five points since the final debate, according to this poll: https://www.macleans.ca/politics/the-macleans-pollara-ontario-election-poll-the-ndp-lead-keeps-growing/
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenn
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Voters should vote to get the government that will deliver most closely the policies they want. Voters don’t know and most never meet their elected representatives. So who cares about the local candidate. Doug Ford and his gelding candidates will do what Conservatives always do in office which is the opposite of my idea of good government. So I voted for Catherine Fife in Waterloo because she is the only one who can defeat the PC candidate and his large number of Conservative Waterloo voters. In KC, I heard last week that Verneille is polling at 7 percent. So the NDP candidate there is the best way to avoid Ford’s $6 billion tax cuts. The CAA about two months ago told its members to lobby politicians to quickly fix potholes to save their precious status symbol vehicles from expensive repairs. The first step is to vote people to Queens Park who won’t cut $6 billion from the budget. Who cares that you have to vote NDP in KC instead of Liberal or Green?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 30, 2018, at 12:10 PM, Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has Dan Weber been avoiding all candidates meetings?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 30, 2018, at 12:03 PM, Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So far the only one that has attended, as I understand it, is Kitchener Centre's Mary Henein Thorn. Who is truly a lovely woman and good on her!! Too bad her leader is a complete disaster.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But here's the thing. We want local representation! We can't have PR because our local isn't so local that way, and so we are willing to put up with all the problems of FPTP just so we can have local representation!!!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Kitchener Conestoga guy was appointed so even registered PCs may not have met him. All the Conservative big signs that I've seen so far, including this one, do not have the candidates picture on them unlike most every other party. And they don't show up in public. And in this case, the guy has the same name as the last guy--but its a different guy! So how much value does local representation have when you either, have no idea who this person is, or, think you are voting for someone else?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Did the PC candidate attend. I read in the newspaper that PC candidates province wide are avoiding the small candidates meetings. If you people want to prevent a leader becoming premier and his party with policies contrary to Fair Vote, go vote today, Wednesday, May 30 at the advance polls which are open until 8pm. Stop talking about reforming elections and go vote in this election.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On May 30, 2018, at 7:33 AM, Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> can you believe I forgot to go ... and it was on my calendar .... arggggggh
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 28 May 2018 at 22:20, Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello FairVoters,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The third All Candidates Meeting will be tomorrow night in Waterloo. So far the turn out and response to the discussion format has been tremendous. Tomorrow evening we will be talking about Income Security, Housing, the Environment, Health Care and Democratic Reform.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Join us at 6 pm at First United Church ( William & King) for an engaging & important evening.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Sharon
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-announce_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com>
>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:56:50 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Discussion group tonight!
>> sorry about the spelling ... that's Horwath not Howarth
>>
>>> On 31 May 2018 at 19:12, Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Yes I must apologize also ... Andrea Howarth came to town suddenly (only found out yesterday) for a whistle stop ... I waited an hour as she was late and left ... it would have been better to go to FVC
>>>
>>>> On 30 May 2018 at 21:01, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
>>>> Sorry I didn’t make it.
>>>>
>>>> Grandson’s baseball game.
>>>>
>>>> See some of you Saturday.
>>>>
>>>> Dave A
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Dave Arthur
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 4:50 PM
>>>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion; David dirks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Discussion group tonight!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’ll be a bit late.
>>>>
>>>> Dave A
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Ellen Papenburg
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 4:21 PM
>>>> To: David dirks; FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Discussion group tonight!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Evan it might be only you, Jim and me..
>>>>
>>>> Ellen
>>>>
>>>> (via my android phone, typos can occur)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018, 16:15 David dirks <daviddirks at rogers.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am passing too, as Andrea Horwath is in town.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 4:04 PM, Cathy Scott <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi, Evan
>>>>
>>>> I won't be there for the Fair Vote meeting tonight.I have another political meeting.
>>>>
>>>> Cathy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Evan Rosamond <erosamond at worldline.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Fair Voters,
>>>>
>>>> Tonight's discussion ought to be a noisy affair. I'm not even going to try to keep the current election from dominating.
>>>>
>>>> Where: Bed & Roses meeting room, Queen St S at Courtland.
>>>>
>>>> When: 7-9 pm tonight
>>>>
>>>> Note: Due to construction around the front door, you will have to enter via the back door, by the back parking lot (residents' parking only) next to Clemens Lane. Ellen or delegate will open the door for you. Parking is at the usual overflow lot next to the lawyer's office a little up the hill.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers .org
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/m ailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l istserv.thinkers.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com>
>> To: Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com>
>> Cc: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:27:20 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] [fvc-wat-announce] Meet The Waterloo Candidates Tomorrow Night!
>> Oh, it is! And I forgot a few, such as no political party can mention in any campaign materials or anything where they stand on electoral reform because they can't spend more than $500 on the issue. And, if by some miracle you managed to get through all these impossible hoops--it isn't binding anyway!
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:48 AM, Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "you need 30,000 of those 20,000 to vote yes" ... this sounds like travelling faster than light
>>>
>>>> On 30 May 2018 at 13:06, Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Heh, we have a National Council member coming from a long way away to work on Schreiner's campaign next week. And then, he's going to drive up to Ottawa for the FVC AGM. Which, you can, too! https://www.eventbrite.com/e/fair-vote-canada-agm-2018-tickets-45842411888
>>>>
>>>> For those who are maybe nervous about voting NDP, and cynical altogether, I believe the BC-NDP just came through. A two-part question, followed by three options of PR. Yippee!!!! (My opinion only)
>>>>
>>>> But I'm excited! I'm looking forward to this year now!! On the other hand, the PEI referendum is an absolute joke. And NOT funny!! Have you guys heard? 50% of people voting in ANOTHER election have to vote yes (i.e., if the municipal elections have 60,000 votes and the referendum has 20,000 votes, you need 30,000 of those 20,000 to vote yes) And if you don't vote at all in the referendum, your non-vote counts on the 'no' column. Oh, and just in case, you also have to have 60% support of the ridings. (27 ridings means above-calculated yes votes in 14 of them) In case that wasn't hedging their bets enough, both the yes side and the no side get $75,000 of government money. There can be any number of groups who can qualify for the yes side and the no side. So if 20 people at five people per group choose to say they'd like to be on the yes side, that is $15,000 the FVC-PEI team gets to spend. No telling if the other four qualified yes advertisers will spend wisely, have a clue what they are doing, aren't really no side supporters, etc. And our team can't spend any more, or advocate for PR until the next Provincial election! How's that for silencing opponents? The money these Liberals will spend to NOT give us what we want is astounding. I mean, saying no at the outset doesn't cost anything. Not campaigning on changing the voting system costs even less.
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 12:40 PM, Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Guelph Green hq 163 Suffolk, GUELPH
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 30, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I want a minority and if this keeps up we'll overshoot the mark the way we did Federally. And look where THAT got us! I still haven't completely made up my mind, but if splitting the NDP vote with the Greens means a Conservative candidate, in Kitchener Centre I'm okay with that. Not if it means a Doug Ford government of course, but that is looking less likely by the day! Horwath is up five points and Ford lost five points since the final debate, according to this poll: https://www.macleans.ca/politics/the-macleans-pollara-ontario-election-poll-the-ndp-lead-keeps-growing/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jenn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Voters should vote to get the government that will deliver most closely the policies they want. Voters don’t know and most never meet their elected representatives. So who cares about the local candidate. Doug Ford and his gelding candidates will do what Conservatives always do in office which is the opposite of my idea of good government. So I voted for Catherine Fife in Waterloo because she is the only one who can defeat the PC candidate and his large number of Conservative Waterloo voters. In KC, I heard last week that Verneille is polling at 7 percent. So the NDP candidate there is the best way to avoid Ford’s $6 billion tax cuts. The CAA about two months ago told its members to lobby politicians to quickly fix potholes to save their precious status symbol vehicles from expensive repairs. The first step is to vote people to Queens Park who won’t cut $6 billion from the budget. Who cares that you have to vote NDP in KC instead of Liberal or Green?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On May 30, 2018, at 12:10 PM, Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Has Dan Weber been avoiding all candidates meetings?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 30, 2018, at 12:03 PM, Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So far the only one that has attended, as I understand it, is Kitchener Centre's Mary Henein Thorn. Who is truly a lovely woman and good on her!! Too bad her leader is a complete disaster.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But here's the thing. We want local representation! We can't have PR because our local isn't so local that way, and so we are willing to put up with all the problems of FPTP just so we can have local representation!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Kitchener Conestoga guy was appointed so even registered PCs may not have met him. All the Conservative big signs that I've seen so far, including this one, do not have the candidates picture on them unlike most every other party. And they don't show up in public. And in this case, the guy has the same name as the last guy--but its a different guy! So how much value does local representation have when you either, have no idea who this person is, or, think you are voting for someone else?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Did the PC candidate attend. I read in the newspaper that PC candidates province wide are avoiding the small candidates meetings. If you people want to prevent a leader becoming premier and his party with policies contrary to Fair Vote, go vote today, Wednesday, May 30 at the advance polls which are open until 8pm. Stop talking about reforming elections and go vote in this election.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 30, 2018, at 7:33 AM, Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> can you believe I forgot to go ... and it was on my calendar .... arggggggh
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28 May 2018 at 22:20, Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello FairVoters,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The third All Candidates Meeting will be tomorrow night in Waterloo. So far the turn out and response to the discussion format has been tremendous. Tomorrow evening we will be talking about Income Security, Housing, the Environment, Health Care and Democratic Reform.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Join us at 6 pm at First United Church ( William & King) for an engaging & important evening.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sharon
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-announce mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-announce_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Corliss Olson <cpolson11 at gmail.com>
>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 10:32:56 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Discussion group tonight!
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> I rarely weigh in, but I am a solid advocate for PR & a member of this group.
>>
>> I have been doing a lot of door-knocking for the NDP, in 2 constituencies. While I have sensed a bit of a shift in the last few days, in no way is victory assured. In Kitchener-Conestoga, many people do not even know about the nastiness surrounding the dumping of Michael Harris & the sleight-of-hand appointment of Mike Harris, a disturbing affront to democracy, and perhaps a telling comment on public awareness of issues and candidates.
>>
>> Even with the NDP coming up in the polls, I am very fearful that we are still looking at a PC government, maybe even a majority, and the prospect of Premier Ford. I would caution against hedging bets to try to ensure a minority government at this point. Rather, I will continue to work for the NDP (with a solid platform aligned with my values) -- and commit to pushing for PR after the election, whatever the outcome. There is a far better chance for PR with the NDP than with anyone else.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Corliss
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:56 AM, Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> sorry about the spelling ... that's Horwath not Howarth
>>>
>>>> On 31 May 2018 at 19:12, Donald Fraser <donaldafraser at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Yes I must apologize also ... Andrea Howarth came to town suddenly (only found out yesterday) for a whistle stop ... I waited an hour as she was late and left ... it would have been better to go to FVC
>>>>
>>>>> On 30 May 2018 at 21:01, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
>>>>> Sorry I didn’t make it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Grandson’s baseball game.
>>>>>
>>>>> See some of you Saturday.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave A
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Dave Arthur
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 4:50 PM
>>>>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion; David dirks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Discussion group tonight!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’ll be a bit late.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave A
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Ellen Papenburg
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 4:21 PM
>>>>> To: David dirks; FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Discussion group tonight!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Evan it might be only you, Jim and me..
>>>>>
>>>>> Ellen
>>>>>
>>>>> (via my android phone, typos can occur)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018, 16:15 David dirks <daviddirks at rogers.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am passing too, as Andrea Horwath is in town.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 4:04 PM, Cathy Scott <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Evan
>>>>>
>>>>> I won't be there for the Fair Vote meeting tonight.I have another political meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cathy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Evan Rosamond <erosamond at worldline.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Fair Voters,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tonight's discussion ought to be a noisy affair. I'm not even going to try to keep the current election from dominating.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where: Bed & Roses meeting room, Queen St S at Courtland.
>>>>>
>>>>> When: 7-9 pm tonight
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: Due to construction around the front door, you will have to enter via the back door, by the back parking lot (residents' parking only) next to Clemens Lane. Ellen or delegate will open the door for you. Parking is at the usual overflow lot next to the lawyer's office a little up the hill.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers .org
>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/m ailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_l istserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Jay Judkowitz <judkowitz at gmail.com>
>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 10:40:56 -0400
>> Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>> Good morning,
>>
>> I'm sure most of us have noticed the recent Liberal message, "We're going to lose our majority, but vote for as many of us as possible to force a minority government so the evil PC and the irresponsible NDP can't ruin the province."
>>
>> If we had PR, this would be exactly the right message for them to go with. But, without PR, they will split the left of center vote and give us Premier Ford.
>>
>> My question to those of you with connections to the Liberal leadership is as follows. Are the so lacking in self awareness that they don't realize that they had 15 years to pass PR and to prepare for the inevitability of their eventual loss of majority? Or are they so cynical that they actually want Premier Ford figuring he'll break so much so quickly that they will soon be back in power with another majority?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your insights.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jay
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com>
>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 11:05:58 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>> In my opinion, I think it is one of tone-deafness. They aren't thinking of it now since it just isn't something they consider. And, once back in power, it is an evil that elects extremists. Fair Vote Canada did tweet back to Wynne about why PR is important to get her to consider it, but I think Wynne has always been a soft supporter anyway. It isn't her, its everybody else! But, I don't have friends in high places, either.
>>
>> I'd like to know whether my messaging Dianne Verneil at this point (two days before she loses her job) is being an asshole/rubbing it in/no compassion sort of thing, or whether it might give her the "ah-hah" moment. Do I care what she thinks of me? No, not much. I do care I'm not completely seen as a total asshole by the Liberal riding association in general though. Maybe I already am in which case I have nothing to lose, but KNOWING I'm doing that to myself is not something I would particularly like to do. I expect you've all heard that I'm the only person in the years Dianne Verneil has been our MPP, that has ever mentioned it to her? LOL!!! (i.e., not true)
>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Jay Judkowitz <judkowitz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>> I'm sure most of us have noticed the recent Liberal message, "We're going to lose our majority, but vote for as many of us as possible to force a minority government so the evil PC and the irresponsible NDP can't ruin the province."
>>>
>>> If we had PR, this would be exactly the right message for them to go with. But, without PR, they will split the left of center vote and give us Premier Ford.
>>>
>>> My question to those of you with connections to the Liberal leadership is as follows. Are the so lacking in self awareness that they don't realize that they had 15 years to pass PR and to prepare for the inevitability of their eventual loss of majority? Or are they so cynical that they actually want Premier Ford figuring he'll break so much so quickly that they will soon be back in power with another majority?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for your insights.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: David Dolson <ddolson at golden.net>
>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2018 11:10:14 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>> In my opinion, At this point, to advance PR, our message should be "elect the best candidate in your riding. Forget parties.
>>
>>
>> -Dave
>> From: Jay Judkowitz
>> Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2018 10:41 AM
>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>> Reply To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>> Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>>
>> Good morning,
>>
>> I'm sure most of us have noticed the recent Liberal message, "We're going to lose our majority, but vote for as many of us as possible to force a minority government so the evil PC and the irresponsible NDP can't ruin the province."
>>
>> If we had PR, this would be exactly the right message for them to go with. But, without PR, they will split the left of center vote and give us Premier Ford.
>>
>> My question to those of you with connections to the Liberal leadership is as follows. Are the so lacking in self awareness that they don't realize that they had 15 years to pass PR and to prepare for the inevitability of their eventual loss of majority? Or are they so cynical that they actually want Premier Ford figuring he'll break so much so quickly that they will soon be back in power with another majority?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your insights.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Jay Judkowitz <judkowitz at gmail.com>
>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 11:53:52 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>> Exactly!
>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 3, 2018, 11:43 AM David Dolson <ddolson at golden.net> wrote:
>>> In my opinion, At this point, to advance PR, our message should be "elect the best candidate in your riding. Forget parties.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>> From: Jay Judkowitz
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2018 10:41 AM
>>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>> Reply To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>> Subject: [fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>>>
>>> Good morning,
>>>
>>> I'm sure most of us have noticed the recent Liberal message, "We're going to lose our majority, but vote for as many of us as possible to force a minority government so the evil PC and the irresponsible NDP can't ruin the province."
>>>
>>> If we had PR, this would be exactly the right message for them to go with. But, without PR, they will split the left of center vote and give us Premier Ford.
>>>
>>> My question to those of you with connections to the Liberal leadership is as follows. Are the so lacking in self awareness that they don't realize that they had 15 years to pass PR and to prepare for the inevitability of their eventual loss of majority? Or are they so cynical that they actually want Premier Ford figuring he'll break so much so quickly that they will soon be back in power with another majority?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for your insights.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>
>> To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 13:18:44 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>> Of course, voting for the best candidate in your riding has always been
>> the correct strategy, no matter what the polls or the politicians say today.
>>
>> As long as our voting system is Single Member Plurality, ie.
>> Winner-Take-All (and "Winner" may be the candidate with only 29% of the
>> vote), the voters cannot expect that their concerns will be addressed by
>> an MPP that doesn't share those concerns. This means that if a voter's
>> strategic vote is successful, they've guaranteed they're getting a
>> candidate who won't act on their concerns.
>>
>> Kathleen Wynne's exhortation that people should vote Liberal for a
>> minority government may just result in enough votes to win a few swing
>> ridings (eg. Kitchener--Conestoga). Strangely, conceding defeat may
>> actually be a winning strategy.
>>
>> But regardless of the outcome, I doubt the three big parties will act on
>> implementing proportional representation, because there's always the
>> next election where they could win big with a minority of votes.
>>
>> --Bob.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413
>> SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/
>> Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting
>> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2018-06-03 11:53 AM, Jay Judkowitz wrote:
>> > Exactly!
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jun 3, 2018, 11:43 AM David Dolson <ddolson at golden.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In my opinion, At this point, to advance PR, our message should be "elect
>> >> the best candidate in your riding. Forget parties.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Dave
>> >> *From: *Jay Judkowitz
>> >> *Sent: *Sunday, June 3, 2018 10:41 AM
>> >> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>> >> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>> >> *Subject: *[fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>> >>
>> >> Good morning,
>> >>
>> >> I'm sure most of us have noticed the recent Liberal message, "We're
>> >> going to lose our majority, but vote for as many of us as possible to force
>> >> a minority government so the evil PC and the irresponsible NDP can't ruin
>> >> the province."
>> >>
>> >> If we had PR, this would be exactly the right message for them to go
>> >> with. But, without PR, they will split the left of center vote and give us
>> >> Premier Ford.
>> >>
>> >> My question to those of you with connections to the Liberal
>> >> leadership is as follows. Are the so lacking in self awareness that they
>> >> don't realize that they had 15 years to pass PR and to prepare for the
>> >> inevitability of their eventual loss of majority? Or are they so cynical
>> >> that they actually want Premier Ford figuring he'll break so much so
>> >> quickly that they will soon be back in power with another majority?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance for your insights.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >> Jay
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> >> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> >> Unsubscribe:
>> >> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> > Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> > Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Stephanie Janzen-Martin <stephanie at janzenmartin.net>
>> To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:57:57 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I agree that her messaging would have made much more sense with PR than now, when it can easily come across as quite negative ie "We could handle the responsibilities of being gov't but nobody else can, so if you can't have us, you can't have anybody else, either...". For me, she would have earned a lot more respect if she would have have said something like "I know that our time here is up, for a variety of reasons. I still want the progressive values I work for to continue and would happily support an NDP gov't. Let's work together to ensure that the divisiveness of Ford doesn't take hold in Ontatio."
>>
>> Then, in any close ridings, the progressive vote wouldn't get split, and probably, a lot of what the Liberals want, they would get in an NDP gov't. Next step after that would be PR.
>>
>> Wishful thinking, I know - but that, in my opinion, was her best shot at going out with the most respect. :)
>>
>> Just what comes to mind for me in this discussion at this point.
>>
>> SJM
>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>> Of course, voting for the best candidate in your riding has always been
>>> the correct strategy, no matter what the polls or the politicians say today.
>>>
>>> As long as our voting system is Single Member Plurality, ie.
>>> Winner-Take-All (and "Winner" may be the candidate with only 29% of the
>>> vote), the voters cannot expect that their concerns will be addressed by
>>> an MPP that doesn't share those concerns. This means that if a voter's
>>> strategic vote is successful, they've guaranteed they're getting a
>>> candidate who won't act on their concerns.
>>>
>>> Kathleen Wynne's exhortation that people should vote Liberal for a
>>> minority government may just result in enough votes to win a few swing
>>> ridings (eg. Kitchener--Conestoga). Strangely, conceding defeat may
>>> actually be a winning strategy.
>>>
>>> But regardless of the outcome, I doubt the three big parties will act on
>>> implementing proportional representation, because there's always the
>>> next election where they could win big with a minority of votes.
>>>
>>> --Bob.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413
>>> SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/
>>> Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting
>>> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2018-06-03 11:53 AM, Jay Judkowitz wrote:
>>> > Exactly!
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Jun 3, 2018, 11:43 AM David Dolson <ddolson at golden.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> In my opinion, At this point, to advance PR, our message should be "elect
>>> >> the best candidate in your riding. Forget parties.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -Dave
>>> >> *From: *Jay Judkowitz
>>> >> *Sent: *Sunday, June 3, 2018 10:41 AM
>>> >> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>> >> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>> >> *Subject: *[fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>>> >>
>>> >> Good morning,
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm sure most of us have noticed the recent Liberal message, "We're
>>> >> going to lose our majority, but vote for as many of us as possible to force
>>> >> a minority government so the evil PC and the irresponsible NDP can't ruin
>>> >> the province."
>>> >>
>>> >> If we had PR, this would be exactly the right message for them to go
>>> >> with. But, without PR, they will split the left of center vote and give us
>>> >> Premier Ford.
>>> >>
>>> >> My question to those of you with connections to the Liberal
>>> >> leadership is as follows. Are the so lacking in self awareness that they
>>> >> don't realize that they had 15 years to pass PR and to prepare for the
>>> >> inevitability of their eventual loss of majority? Or are they so cynical
>>> >> that they actually want Premier Ford figuring he'll break so much so
>>> >> quickly that they will soon be back in power with another majority?
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks in advance for your insights.
>>> >>
>>> >> Best regards,
>>> >> Jay
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> >> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> >> Unsubscribe:
>>> >> http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> > Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> > Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>> --
>> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>> Find me at: Menno Adventures... https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
>> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
>> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the fvc-wat-disc mailing list
> Post a message: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
> Unsubscribe: http://listserv.thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/fvc-wat-disc_listserv.thinkers.org
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