[fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting

Mon Nov 4 14:48:25 EST 2019

What percentage of the votes does the DUP get.
If less than  the usual threshold of 5%, they wouldn’t benefit from PR.
If they actually elect some members under FPTP, then that’s the way it is.

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From: Mary Jackes
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2019 8:24 AM
To: fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting

I hate the thought of the UK election with FPTP.  What sort of strategic voting will there be?
The DUP (a fringe party) has had way too much power - that puts paid to that particular argument.
On 2019-11-04 1:29 a.m., Donald Fraser wrote:
Excellent letter, David!!!

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 17:22, Ellen Papenburg <sagittaep at gmail.com> wrote:
Good for you David.  It's a ridiculous archaic system! 

Applauding you from Iceland. No northern lights,  raindrops instead. But lots of other things to see. 
Ellen 

(via my android phone,  typos may occur)

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 20:50 Dave Arthur, <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
Hepburn’s op-ed today in The Star and The Record is almost exactly the same crap he wrote two years ago when Justin shut down the process.
I just sent the same letter I sent then to both The Star and The Record. Here it is.

Hepburn’s Arguments Ill-Conceived
Bob Hepburn says changing our voting system is a bad idea.  But 88% of the witnesses and briefs submitted by Canadians who have studied the issue say we need proportional representation, the system used by 90% of other developed democracies in the world.  What do those countries know that Hepburn doesn’t?  PR countries typically have more stable, longer lasting governments, better representation for all citizens, more cooperation and consensus, less partisan bitterness, longer range planning, less policy lurch, better voter turnouts, and sincere rather than strategic voting.  Systems using multi-member or larger ridings with additional MPs give constituents more, not less contact with representatives.  Candidate lists adding proportional MPs can be open and ranked by voters adding more democracy, not less.  Canada is almost alone with its unfair version of democracy. Friends in countries with PR can’t believe we have stayed with a system where votes are not equal and too many do not count toward representation.
David Arthur
32 Springdale Drive
Kitchener, Ontario N2K1P9
arthurd23 at bell.net
519-579-3097

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From: Stephanie Janzen-Martin
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:39 AM
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting

I agree that PR is not partisan - but I can also see how people who don't want change might use that to shut down discussion.

Discussions I've had with someone I know who works in a Liberal office on the Hill have been frustrating, to say the least. Basically "voting to avoid your worst case outcome should be good enough for you. Nobody else is trying to change the system, so why are you?"

I suspect that he sees it as a highly partisan issue ie some parties want change and others don't and Greens would benefit from change so that's why they want it etc.

I maintain a sliver of hope (from conversations with Bardish on this and other topics), that she could, eventually, be convinced to support PR - on the premise that all votes should count equally, and that she should have to earn votes (by being first choice, instead of by creating fear of a worse choice), and that cooperation with other parties (eg NDP and Green) is a positive for democracy.

SJM

...................................
Stephanie Janzen-Martin
Menno Adventures: sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com 
Support Independent School Funding: https://www.change.org/p/doug-ford-end-discriminatory-funding-for-catholic-public-private-schools-in-ontario 
Find me on LinkedIn. 

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 08:14, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
I still don’t see that electoral reform is in any way partisan.
It’s about our democracy.
Is that off-limits with our elected MPs?
Did everyone see Bob Hepburn’s op-ed in today’s Record/
https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/9670223-six-reasons-to-just-say-no-to-electoral-reform/
All six reasons to say no to ER are BS.
Anyone want to respond?
Dave A

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From: Catherine Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:00 PM
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting

Catherine Fife said “partisan topics” couldn’t be discussed in her constituency office in the meeting that Jonathon and Don Fraser also attended a few months ago. You were at the only meeting I’ve attended with Bardish. You and I talked outside her outer door while we waited. 

On Oct 29, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Cathe,

I'm interested in the context of Bardish's comments about not discussing partisan politics in their constituency office.  Can you give more details?

Three of us: Terry, Anita and myself met with Bardish to talk about Citizens' Assemblies prior to the election.  Not sure if addressing Citizens' Assemblies is partisan.  Addressing LPC issues in the constituency office would be partisan.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 4:41 PM Catherine Campbell <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com> wrote:
Re: “Fair Vote and PR are (allegedly) non-partisan”: Hey, Dave, You are delegated to find nests of Conservatives and Liberals and put the statement to them. Wear a body cam.  Show us the video at the November meeting. Somebody should bring popcorn. Cathe Campbell

On Oct 29, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:

But Fairvote and electoral reform are not partisan. Correct?

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From: Catherine Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 4:27 PM
To: FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
Subject: Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting

I’m always on the side of activism. Whenever questions are posed to our group. “Shall we do X?”, my answer will always be,  “Yes!.” So yes to what Peter wrote, and yes to delegating to Anita the herding, corralling and sending off of pro-PR residents to meet with our newly re-elected and elected MPs outside their constituency offices. Catherine Fife and I recall Bardish Chagger telling our Fair Vote they couldn’t discuss partisan politics inside their constituency office. Hence, we follow the rules of engagement and meet on neutral territory. 

On Oct 28, 2019, at 10:11 PM, Cathy Scott <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, Everyone
Just a reminder that this Wednesday, Oct. 30,  is the last of the month and we will be meeting at the 'Hub' at 7:00pm, at St. John's church at Duke and Water Streets.
Here are some points of discussion:
1. election results (I will bring The Record edition that lists the results by riding).  
2. strategies for getting electoral reform on the Liberal-NDP-Green agenda
• visits to local Liberal MPs regarding establishing a Citizens' Assembly
• should we accept Anita's offer to help us find and coordinate volunteers for these visits or organize them ourselves, independently of FVC?
       3. website update - Jay recently found that our website is down

See you then!
Cathy

On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 1:16 PM Cathy Scott <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, Sharon and Bob
It occurred to me yesterday that this coming Wed. is the last of the month.  
Some of the agenda might be:
- discussing the election results (I saved the Record edition that lists results riding by riding)
- planning strategy for getting electoral reform on the Liberal-NDP-Green agenda;  and how they could do it before the next election, if we can show that it should be important to them.

What do you think?
Let me know if you want me to send out the announcement.
Cathyr 

On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 11:15 AM Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Bob, 

Bob, congratulations on moving the Green vote up nearly 4% in Brantford-Brant.  That represents a lot of work & that doesn't include travel time!

You usually send out the notice for our monthly meeting.  Are you up to doing that or should Cathy/I send it out?

It will be at the Hub.

Warm regards,
S.
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