[fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting
Mary Jackes
mkj at bell.net
Mon Nov 4 08:24:55 EST 2019
I hate the thought of the UK election with FPTP. What sort of strategic
voting will there be?
The DUP (a fringe party) has had way too much power - that puts paid to
that particular argument.
On 2019-11-04 1:29 a.m., Donald Fraser wrote:
> Excellent letter, David!!!
>
> On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 17:22, Ellen Papenburg <sagittaep at gmail.com
> <mailto:sagittaep at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Good for you David. It's a ridiculous archaic system!
>
> Applauding you from Iceland. No northern lights, raindrops
> instead. But lots of other things to see.
>
> Ellen
>
> (via my android phone, typos may occur)
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 20:50 Dave Arthur, <arthurd23 at bell.net
> <mailto:arthurd23 at bell.net>> wrote:
>
> Hepburn’s op-ed today in The Star and The Record is almost
> exactly the same crap he wrote two years ago when Justin shut
> down the process.
>
> I just sent the same letter I sent then to both The Star and
> The Record. Here it is.
>
> Hepburn’s Arguments Ill-Conceived
>
> Bob Hepburn says changing our voting system is a bad idea. But
> 88% of the witnesses and briefs submitted by Canadians who
> have studied the issue say we need proportional
> representation, the system used by 90% of other developed
> democracies in the world. What do those countries know that
> Hepburn doesn’t? PR countries typically have more stable,
> longer lasting governments, better representation for all
> citizens, more cooperation and consensus, less partisan
> bitterness, longer range planning, less policy lurch, better
> voter turnouts, and sincere rather than strategic voting.
> Systems using multi-member or larger ridings with additional
> MPs give constituents more, not less contact with
> representatives. Candidate lists adding proportional MPs can
> be open and ranked by voters adding more democracy, not less.
> Canada is almost alone with its unfair version of democracy.
> Friends in countries with PR can’t believe we have stayed with
> a system where votes are not equal and too many do not count
> toward representation.
>
> David Arthur
>
> 32 Springdale Drive
>
> Kitchener, Ontario N2K1P9
>
> arthurd23 at bell.net <mailto:arthurd23 at bell.net>
>
> 519-579-3097
>
> Sent from Mail
> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
> *From: *Stephanie Janzen-Martin
> <mailto:stephanie at janzenmartin.net>
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:39 AM
> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting
>
> I agree that PR is not partisan - but I can also see how
> people who don't want change might use that to shut down
> discussion.
>
> Discussions I've had with someone I know who works in a
> Liberal office on the Hill have been frustrating, to say the
> least. Basically "voting to avoid your worst case outcome
> should be good enough for you. Nobody else is trying to change
> the system, so why are you?"
>
> I suspect that he sees it as a highly partisan issue ie some
> parties want change and others don't and Greens would benefit
> from change so that's why they want it etc.
>
> I maintain a sliver of hope (from conversations with Bardish
> on this and other topics), that she could, eventually, be
> convinced to support PR - on the premise that all votes should
> count equally, and that she should have to earn votes (by
> being first choice, instead of by creating fear of a worse
> choice), and that cooperation with other parties (eg NDP and
> Green) is a positive for democracy.
>
> SJM
>
> ...................................
>
> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>
> Menno Adventures:
> sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
> <http://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com>
>
> Support Independent School Funding:
> https://www.change.org/p/doug-ford-end-discriminatory-funding-for-catholic-public-private-schools-in-ontario
>
>
> Find me on LinkedIn.
>
> On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 08:14, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net
> <mailto:arthurd23 at bell.net>> wrote:
>
> I still don’t see that electoral reform is in any way
> partisan.
>
> It’s about our democracy.
>
> Is that off-limits with our elected MPs?
>
> Did everyone see Bob Hepburn’s op-ed in today’s Record/
>
> https://www.therecord.com/opinion-story/9670223-six-reasons-to-just-say-no-to-electoral-reform/
>
> All six reasons to say no to ER are BS.
>
> Anyone want to respond?
>
> Dave A
>
> Sent from Mail
> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Catherine Campbell <mailto:cdcampbell9 at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:00 PM
> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's FVC-WR Meeting
>
> Catherine Fife said “partisan topics” couldn’t be
> discussed in her constituency office in the meeting that
> Jonathon and Don Fraser also attended a few months ago.
> You were at the only meeting I’ve attended with Bardish.
> You and I talked outside her outer door while we waited.
>
> On Oct 29, 2019, at 6:50 PM, Sharon Sommerville
> <sharonsommerville at gmail.com
> <mailto:sharonsommerville at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Cathe,
>
> I'm interested in the context of Bardish's comments
> about not discussing partisan politics in their
> constituency office. Can you give more details?
>
> Three of us: Terry, Anita and myself met with Bardish
> to talk about Citizens' Assemblies prior to the
> election. Not sure if addressing Citizens' Assemblies
> is partisan. Addressing LPC issues in the
> constituency office would be partisan.
>
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 4:41 PM Catherine Campbell
> <cdcampbell9 at gmail.com <mailto:cdcampbell9 at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Re: “Fair Vote and PR are (allegedly)
> non-partisan”: Hey, Dave, You are delegated to
> find nests of Conservatives and Liberals and put
> the statement to them. Wear a body cam. Show us
> the video at the November meeting. Somebody should
> bring popcorn. Cathe Campbell
>
> On Oct 29, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Dave Arthur
> <arthurd23 at bell.net
> <mailto:arthurd23 at bell.net>> wrote:
>
>
>
> But Fairvote and electoral reform are not
> partisan. Correct?
>
> Sent from Mail
> <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
> for Windows 10
>
> *From: *Catherine Campbell
> <mailto:cdcampbell9 at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 29, 2019 4:27 PM
> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
> <mailto:fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Next Week's
> FVC-WR Meeting
>
> I’m always on the side of activism. Whenever
> questions are posed to our group. “Shall we do
> X?”, my answer will always be, “Yes!.” So yes
> to what Peter wrote, and yes to delegating to
> Anita the herding, corralling and sending off
> of pro-PR residents to meet with our newly
> re-elected and elected MPs outside their
> constituency offices. Catherine Fife and I
> recall Bardish Chagger telling our Fair Vote
> they couldn’t discuss partisan politics inside
> their constituency office. Hence, we follow
> the rules of engagement and meet on neutral
> territory.
>
> On Oct 28, 2019, at 10:11 PM, Cathy Scott
> <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com
> <mailto:cathy.scottfree at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi, Everyone
>
> Just a reminder that this Wednesday, Oct.
> 30, is the last of the month and we will
> be meeting at the 'Hub' at 7:00pm, at St.
> John's church at Duke and Water Streets.
>
> Here are some points of discussion:
>
> 1. election results (I will bring The
> Record edition that lists the results
> by riding).
> 2. strategies for getting electoral
> reform on the Liberal-NDP-Green agenda
>
> * visits to local Liberal MPs
> regarding establishing a Citizens'
> Assembly
> * should we accept Anita's offer to
> help us find and
> coordinate volunteers for these
> visits or organize them ourselves,
> independently of FVC?
>
> 3. website update - Jay recently found
> that our website is down
>
> See you then!
>
> Cathy
>
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 1:16 PM Cathy
> Scott <cathy.scottfree at gmail.com
> <mailto:cathy.scottfree at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi, Sharon and Bob
>
> It occurred to me yesterday that this
> coming Wed. is the last of the month.
>
> Some of the agenda might be:
>
> - discussing the election results (I
> saved the Record edition that lists
> results riding by riding)
>
> - planning strategy for getting
> electoral reform on the
> Liberal-NDP-Green agenda; and how
> they could do it before the
> next election, if we can show that it
> should be important to them.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Let me know if you want me to send out
> the announcement.
>
> Cathyr
>
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 11:15 AM
> Sharon Sommerville
> <sharonsommerville at gmail.com
> <mailto:sharonsommerville at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hello Bob,
>
> Bob, congratulations on moving the
> Green vote up nearly 4% in
> Brantford-Brant. That represents a
> lot of work & that doesn't include
> travel time!
>
> You usually send out the notice
> for our monthly meeting. Are you
> up to doing that or should Cathy/I
> send it out?
>
> It will be at the Hub.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> S.
>
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