[fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
Catherine Campbell
cdcampbell9 at gmail.com
Mon Jun 4 16:18:47 EDT 2018
I agree completely with Stephanie’s 9:57am message. I didn’t know about what Jess wrote at 10am. Liberals should certainly be supportive of this election’s NDP platform seeing as they Stole so much of it and put it into their own. Wynne should have said a dog whistle message to progressives that we should vote together (to block the PCO: Privatization Conservative Party of Ontario). Vague so as to avoid what Jenn said was against the law.
> On Jun 4, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with you!
>
> I doubt a candidate can do much, although one need not say a word to get the point across in the right circumstances. Or start the conversation with "our internal polling says I can't win this riding, but I'm here to promote progressive policies" to get it into the right circumstances.
>
>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Stephanie Janzen-Martin <stephanie at janzenmartin.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Perhaps what I wrote wasn't worded clearly enough - not trying to suggest that she break election laws. :)
>>
>> However, there is probably a way that she could have gotten the message across without actually naming names eg "here are the things that we value, and that I think others value as well. Vote for the party that you feel best represents inclusion and progressive values instead of exclusion and divisiveness etc that makes sense in your riding..." (or whatever it would look like, exactly.)
>>
>> It's really a fairly minor change - instead of "vote for the liberal candidate at all cost so that the others don't get too many seats even if that means accepting vote splitting etc" switch to "vote for the best option for a progressive candidate that shares our values so that progressive values continue to be represented strongly in the next gov't."
>>
>> That would get the point across, earn respect, not break any laws and move things forward towards cooperation and collaboration instead of the current status quo.
>>
>> Process question here: If a Liberal candidate knew that they weren't going to win, and that the few votes they got would be from the NDP, which would hand the riding to a conservative, would that candidate have any options eg withdraw and support the NDP? any other options? Anything that could be done in a few really tight ridings tp help tip the balance?
>>
>> Probably still wishful thinking, but I'm an eternal optimist. :)
>>
>> SJM
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:12 AM Jay Judkowitz <judkowitz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I agree with what Bob wrote. I think parties can be short sighted and think their majorities (and policies) will live forever and therefore don't worry about future-proofing democracy until it's too late and they are about to lose their majority. Seems cynical to me.
>>>
>>> I really agree with what Stephanie wrote. What she described would have been the reaction that would have been best for Ontario IMO and what would have gotten me to think of them as more public spirited and less cynical
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 9:58 AM Stephanie Janzen-Martin <stephanie at janzenmartin.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I agree that her messaging would have made much more sense with PR than now, when it can easily come across as quite negative ie "We could handle the responsibilities of being gov't but nobody else can, so if you can't have us, you can't have anybody else, either...". For me, she would have earned a lot more respect if she would have have said something like "I know that our time here is up, for a variety of reasons. I still want the progressive values I work for to continue and would happily support an NDP gov't. Let's work together to ensure that the divisiveness of Ford doesn't take hold in Ontatio."
>>>>
>>>> Then, in any close ridings, the progressive vote wouldn't get split, and probably, a lot of what the Liberals want, they would get in an NDP gov't. Next step after that would be PR.
>>>>
>>>> Wishful thinking, I know - but that, in my opinion, was her best shot at going out with the most respect. :)
>>>>
>>>> Just what comes to mind for me in this discussion at this point.
>>>>
>>>> SJM
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 1:20 PM Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>>>> Of course, voting for the best candidate in your riding has always been
>>>>> the correct strategy, no matter what the polls or the politicians say today.
>>>>>
>>>>> As long as our voting system is Single Member Plurality, ie.
>>>>> Winner-Take-All (and "Winner" may be the candidate with only 29% of the
>>>>> vote), the voters cannot expect that their concerns will be addressed by
>>>>> an MPP that doesn't share those concerns. This means that if a voter's
>>>>> strategic vote is successful, they've guaranteed they're getting a
>>>>> candidate who won't act on their concerns.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kathleen Wynne's exhortation that people should vote Liberal for a
>>>>> minority government may just result in enough votes to win a few swing
>>>>> ridings (eg. Kitchener--Conestoga). Strangely, conceding defeat may
>>>>> actually be a winning strategy.
>>>>>
>>>>> But regardless of the outcome, I doubt the three big parties will act on
>>>>> implementing proportional representation, because there's always the
>>>>> next election where they could win big with a minority of votes.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Bob.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413
>>>>> SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/
>>>>> Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting
>>>>> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2018-06-03 11:53 AM, Jay Judkowitz wrote:
>>>>> > Exactly!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sun, Jun 3, 2018, 11:43 AM David Dolson <ddolson at golden.net> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> In my opinion, At this point, to advance PR, our message should be "elect
>>>>> >> the best candidate in your riding. Forget parties.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> -Dave
>>>>> >> *From: *Jay Judkowitz
>>>>> >> *Sent: *Sunday, June 3, 2018 10:41 AM
>>>>> >> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>>>> >> *Reply To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
>>>>> >> *Subject: *[fvc-wat-disc] Latest liberal tactic
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Good morning,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I'm sure most of us have noticed the recent Liberal message, "We're
>>>>> >> going to lose our majority, but vote for as many of us as possible to force
>>>>> >> a minority government so the evil PC and the irresponsible NDP can't ruin
>>>>> >> the province."
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> If we had PR, this would be exactly the right message for them to go
>>>>> >> with. But, without PR, they will split the left of center vote and give us
>>>>> >> Premier Ford.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> My question to those of you with connections to the Liberal
>>>>> >> leadership is as follows. Are the so lacking in self awareness that they
>>>>> >> don't realize that they had 15 years to pass PR and to prepare for the
>>>>> >> inevitability of their eventual loss of majority? Or are they so cynical
>>>>> >> that they actually want Premier Ford figuring he'll break so much so
>>>>> >> quickly that they will soon be back in power with another majority?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks in advance for your insights.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Best regards,
>>>>> >> Jay
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> --
>>>> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>>>> Find me at: Menno Adventures... https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> --
>> Stephanie Janzen-Martin
>> Find me at: Menno Adventures... https://sustainabledevelopmentresources.wordpress.com
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
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