[fvc-wat-disc] Fwd: Fw: Possibly dumb question on FPTP... FPTP VERSUS ACTUAL RACING....

[Sharon Sommerville]

Hello All,

Long time fair voting supporter, Harold Remus, asked that his comments
regarding the origins of FPTP be passed on to the group.  Below are his
thoughts on the subject.

With thanks,
Sharon
From: Harold Remus <hremus at golden.net>
Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 10:17 PM
Subject: Fw: [fvc-wat-disc] Possibly dumb question on FPTP... FPTP VERSUS
ACTUAL RACING....
To: Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com>
Cc: Anita Nickerson <anita.nickerson at fairvote.ca>, arthurd23 at bell.net


Sharon, could you please pass this on to others?  Thank you!

In our electoral system what Mr. Arthur writes is absolutely true:  There
is only one winner; the rest might have just as well have stayed in the
starting gate or ambled around the track.

In actual horse racing, however, one horse does not take all if it comes in
first.  There are second and third place winners as well.
This is reflected in pari-mutuel wagering:  you bet *win (1st)*, or place
(2d), or show (3rd)..
    http://turfnsport.com/win-place-show-wagering/
Another contrast to Trudeau’s FPTP is that the track authorities don’t
change these rules from one day to the next or one meet or one season to
the next..

The FPTP advocates know that in voting there is only “win.”  No place, no
show.  Winner takes all.  Doesn’t make Horse Sense.  OR Democratic Sense.

But if you are inclined to think that you can maybe get a “majority”
government with 1/3 of the 50% of the electorate that shows up at the
polls, well, of course, you go for it, despite any promises you may have
made.

*Lost:  INTEGRITY   / DEMOCRACY*

hr

___________________________________________-
On 2018-02-04 04:41 PM, Dave Arthur wrote:
> Hi Jay The term comes from horse racing where the first horse that
> passes the post wins and all the others lose and get nothing.
> That’s just what happens in each riding where the candidate that
> gets the most votes wins and the other candidates lose and all the
> votes that they received have no influence on the overall results
> whatsoever. The idea is that all votes should have some effect on
> the overall representation which is what PR achieves. DaveOn 2018-02-04
04:41 PM, Dave Arthur wrote:
> Hi Jay The term comes from horse racing where the first horse that
> passes the post wins and all the others lose and get nothing.
> That’s just what happens in each riding where the candidate that
> gets the most votes wins and the other candidates lose and all the
> votes that they received have no influence on the overall results
> whatsoever. The idea is that all votes should have some effect on
> the overall representation which is what PR achieves. Dave

*From:* Sharon Sommerville <sharonsommerville at gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 04, 2018 9:23 PM
*To:* Jennifer Ross <jenn at jenniferross.ca> ; FVC Waterloo Region Discussion
<fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
*Subject:* Re: [fvc-wat-disc] Possibly dumb question on FPTP...

Hi Jenn,

That was a wonderful video. Elizabeth is clear & informative. Thanks for
passing it along.

Cheers,
Sharon

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 5:36 PM, Jennifer Ross <2jennross at gmail.com> wrote:

> I watched an interesting Ted Talk from Elizabeth May on this just the
> other day.  Because, one of the things I had been using was the fact that I
> can vote in these horse races by way of making a bet.  And you know what?
> I can WIN even though my horse wasn't the first past the post!
>
> I started to write it, but Elizabeth May is a LOT better in explaining
> things than I am, so I'll leave it to her:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwsSDynCcc
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 4:41 PM, Dave Arthur <arthurd23 at bell.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jay
>>
>> The term comes from horse racing where the first horse that passes the
>> post wins and all the others lose and get nothing.
>>
>> That’s just what happens in each riding where the candidate that gets the
>> most votes wins and the other candidates lose and all the votes that they
>> received have no influence on the overall results whatsoever.
>>
>> The idea is that all votes should have some effect on the overall
>> representation which is what PR achieves.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Jay Judkowitz <judkowitz at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Sunday, February 4, 2018 3:14 PM
>> *To: *FVC Waterloo Region Discussion <fvc-wat-disc at listserv.thinkers.org>
>> *Subject: *[fvc-wat-disc] Possibly dumb question on FPTP...
>>
>>
>>
>> So, does anyone know why it's actually called "first past the post"?
>>
>>
>>
>> That name makes it sound like there is some marker there and it's a race
>> to pass it.  Like, first past 30% wins.  But, there is no post at all,
>> nothing that can be determined even knowing the number of candidates.
>> Shouldn't it be called something like "Plurality Voting" or "Plurality
>> Takes All" or something more descriptive?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for the education!
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> --
> No other Western democratic country concentrates as much political power in
> the hands of one person as Canada does with her Prime Minister.
>
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>

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